Author Topic: nef forearm o ring Q (Read 3876 times)

MSP Ret · « **Reply #30 on:** March 24, 2004, 03:13:10 AM »

, josebd, sorry to hear that, but from following and even responding to some of your posts about the trouble you have had getting your .223 to shoot to the same place twice I really can't blame you. But I do hate to see you go. How about sending that unshootable .223 barrel to the factory with a letter of explanation, the way they have been so good to remedy problems they would probably send you a new barrel. It's worth the under $10.00 to send it priority mail with delivery confirmation. Even if you are going to sell it you could sell a shooter instead of a problem. I don't like to use me as an example but that is surely what I would do. You have a lot of time and effort and money tied in that barrel trying to make it shoot. I would call them first to see if they want just the barrel or the whole gun...<><.... :cry:

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 24, 2004, 05:25:54 AM »

josebd...if ya can't get any satisfaction...how much ya going to ask for it??? :roll: ...Oh never mind..I got six of um I don't have time to shoot now!!! :grin:

KYRick · « **Reply #32 on:** March 24, 2004, 06:16:18 PM »

Hey josebd,
You might give this a try. I shot my H&R Ultra yesterday.(24", 223 bull barrel rechambered to 222 Rem Mag Ackley Imp.) Fireforming the cases with the cheap Rem 55gr HP bullets. Anyway, had 10 rounds left and thought I would try something. With neoprene gasket and free-floated barrel, aiming at the top target, shot the lower group. Then I took off the forearm and placed a folded small piece of cardboard 2" behind the forarm screw and put another 1" from the front of the forearm and reinstalled the forearm which put some pressure on the barrel in front of and behind the screw. Then aimed at the same top target and shot the top group. I was amazed. This was at 100yds. and not an accurate "worked up" load, just a fireforming load. Take it for what it's worth but I'm definately gonna do more testing with this. Point of impact changed 3.5" and group tightened .44"
By the way, I got this idea from Yours and Gunnut's posts in the gunsmithing forum a few days ago.

Hope this helps,
Rick

Paul5388 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 24, 2004, 07:55:46 PM »

KYRick,

I think the second group exhibits signs of vertical stringing, more so than the first group.

I know you are tickled with a group reduction, but think how much better the group would have been if the stringing wasn't present.

With multiple barrels, it's very dificult to get the same tension on the forearm each time you make athe change. When the tension changes, the point of impact changes, as you have demonstrated with the groups you posted.

josebd · « **Reply #34 on:** March 25, 2004, 07:25:46 AM »

well im gonna mess with the stock and see if the groups will come back. i know it can do it,its done it before but then it goes away,one more try then im done!

josebd · « **Reply #35 on:** March 25, 2004, 02:12:31 PM »

i tried the pressure points behind the lug and in the front still no good,any more suggestions?already tried floating the barrel,and oring,didnt help.

KYRick · « **Reply #36 on:** March 25, 2004, 03:12:11 PM »

Paul,
I agree with you on all points here. I'm hoping there will be no vert. stringing with a "worked up" load. Maybe I'll get a chance to try some different loads tomorrow. I'll let ya know my results.
Rick

josebd · « **Reply #37 on:** March 25, 2004, 03:44:11 PM »

whats wrong with verticle stringing?

KYRick · « **Reply #38 on:** March 25, 2004, 04:35:47 PM »

To me it's just better if the bullets go in the same hole. HA! like I've ever shot a group like that. :lol:

Paul5388 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 25, 2004, 05:15:19 PM »

KYRick,

Here is a group I shot today at 100 yards. I was using 24.0 gr surplus IMR 4895, CCI 400, 55 gr Rem HP and UMC brass (neck sized with a Lee collet die).

I have relieved a lot of material from the inside of my synthetic forearm to get it to float and I have 4 washers (6mm) from a VW oil strainer gasket set glued into the forearm where the barrel stud fits. With the forearm set up other than this, the vertical stringing may be as much as 6". (There's a .357 right in the middle of the group that doesn't count!)

KYRick · « **Reply #40 on:** March 25, 2004, 07:41:30 PM »

Hey Paul,
All I get is a little red X where the picture should be. I'd really like to see that group. Does anyone else see the pic?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #41 on:** March 26, 2004, 02:33:09 AM »

Not here, all I see is the little red x also....<><.... :?

Paul5388 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 26, 2004, 04:24:17 AM »

I noticed that also, but I right clicked on the icon and selected "view image" and brought it up. I don't know what the problem is, that group is posted here and I have just linked to it.

josebd · « **Reply #43 on:** March 26, 2004, 08:21:55 AM »

i fixed up a dummy round with a 55 vmax,.223 in my handi rifle,set it at 2.300 and the shell just droped in,is this normal or is my barrel wore out?

KYRick · « **Reply #44 on:** March 26, 2004, 09:42:56 AM »

joesbd,
If your 2.300 setting is referring to the OAL (overall length) of your cartridge, then I would say it's not reaching the rifling. I have a stoney point OAL guage and just now checked a 55 V-max in my brand new 223, 24" bull barrel and for the bullet to touch the rifling, the OAL is 2.465. So I would say yours is probably not worn out. NEF just cuts long throats. Greatly reduces pressure problems that way.

josebd · « **Reply #45 on:** March 26, 2004, 10:57:25 AM »

yeah thats about where mine touches,im gonna try some factory winchester ammo and see what happens.

josebd · « **Reply #46 on:** March 26, 2004, 02:44:19 PM »

i bought some factory winchester 55 grain ammo,and it wasn't the best day to shoot,20to 30 mph wind,i was shooting with the wind, it grouped fairly good within 1 1/2 to 2 inches,so i started with a fresh target 3 shots. 1st,dead center waited 2 to 3 minutes between shots. 2nd,3 inches high 1 inch to left. 3rd 2 inches high 1 inch right.would the wind affect it?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #47 on:** March 26, 2004, 02:48:38 PM »

20-30 mph cross wind? it would affect it a lot. If the wind were from behind but quartering it would still affect it...<><.... :grin: josebd, I have been following your efforts with your .223 and have to say you have tried most of everything there is to try. I don't want to sound all knowing or even imply anything about your shooting abilities, however we all do occasionally pick up bad habits and don't even know it. I think you are on the right track in going to factory ammo, you take at least one of the variables out of the equation. And remember try to limit variables to a single one at a time. I thought early in this saga I saw that you wrote you would be shooting with a mixed bag of ammo within any particular group attempt. That had me worried a bit but I thought it was just a misunderstanding on my part, after all who would do that. Well I went to the range with a friend the other day and he was trying to sight in a new scope on a .22 rifle and was having a hard time, no consistency to the groups. I went over and he had a handful of all different .22 ammo he had been saving for about 5 years and was trying to sight in with it!!! I asked him about it and he asked me in return if it really made any difference in how the gun shot!!! I suggest 2 things, 1st., have someone shoot the gun with Factory ammo, someone who you know is an Expert or Master with a rifle. This to eliminate a couple of variables and pilot error. If that fails and he cannot get a reasonable group send it back to the factory with the story for a new barrel. If not, and believe me I'm not saying I'm good, rather that this problem intrigues me, send me the gun (legally of course) and let me play with it, tune it up and/or develop a load for it, no expense to you, it just bugs me that that gun cannot be shot accurately, the erratic results are what lead me to believe that it is either 1) bad crown 2) inconsistent ammo 3) pilot error (no offense please). Start by getting the gun to the best rifle marksman you can, the club champ or someone like that, someone with credentials, not just your buddy that brags about how good a shot he is. That gun can be made to shoot good, it may take a trip to the factory (it's free) but it will shoot!!! Do not give up....<><.... :grin:

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #48 on:** March 26, 2004, 03:05:14 PM »

I would try some cardboard in front of the forearm lug first Josbe. Move the card board forward and backwards after each group and take notes. It dropped my groups in my new 280 barrell from 1.5" to .75 with the first try. It also worked on my 45 70 and 223 also. The 223 nearly drove me nuts before I did this.
It will apply pressure points to the barrell (even the bull barrells) and when you find the right spot it makes a world of difference in mine. Also it makes no difference where you rest the forend on mine, it shoots the same. Digger

josebd · « **Reply #49 on:** March 26, 2004, 03:07:12 PM »

how thick of cardboard,and i was shooting with the wind

Paul5388 · « **Reply #50 on:** March 26, 2004, 03:15:45 PM »

I'm not going to try to re-post the pictures I posted here about the probable cause for the "O" ring failing to solve the floating problem some of the time. There is a sloppy machine work situation that exists on some barrels and no amount of floating is going to make those barrels shoot right.

BTW, I'm talking about the synthetic forearm, not the wood forearm.

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #51 on:** March 26, 2004, 05:44:28 PM »

Joesbe try acouple of business cards or strips about 1" wide,until you have about .o400 of clearance at the front of the forearm. Be sure the channel is centered on the barrel. I start at the lug and move forward,they will improve or get worse. It only takes a few minutes to do, and it may help alot. Digger

handirifle · « **Reply #52 on:** March 26, 2004, 07:18:30 PM »

when you get the red "X" and the "show picture" menu doesn't show it try this. Right click on the red X and select "properties", next highlight and copy the URL address of the picture that is in this dialog box. Close the dialog box, and click in the URL address of your browser. Then hit Ctrl+V and this will paste the picture URL in the address window, then hit the enter key.

This should show the picture in the browser page. Now click the "Back" button and it should be visible in the post.

Hope this helps.

josebd · « **Reply #53 on:** March 27, 2004, 02:55:18 PM »

i sent mine in today ,hope they can get it straighted out.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #54 on:** March 27, 2004, 03:52:48 PM »

Good for you josebd, I know you have tried your best and agonized over that .223 of yours. Make sure you ask them for the target they shot with your rifle after working on it. Also I would suggest you ask them exactly what brand and which load within the brand they used to shoot the test target. It may help, it may not but it won't hurt thats for sure. Any info you can get will help...Good Luck....<><.... :grin: