Getting started

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Wow, I see why bullet swages aren't offered in every reloading catalog - they're spendy.

I'm a "Lee Precision" type of reloader if you get what I mean.

Is there any way guys like me can dabble in swaging?

I'm playing around with paper patching for a .357.  All the reading I've done on paper patching seems to suggest swaging is the route to go.  Although I don't really understand why a swaged paper patched bullet is superior to a cast paper patched bullet.

[talon]

BJ, go to  www.rceco.com  to read up on paper patching. I think that for a pp357 slug, you will need a die(s) cut to .355 so that, when wrapped, a .357 dimeter can be had. You might bid on that eBay 9mm (.355"d) single swage die now being offered ( search words "bullet making) and that may fill the bill for you, lee-wise, as you can use a reloading press. Of course, you'll have to also get a core mold or lead wire & precision cutter. ((the difference in cast bullets and swaged lead bullets is that there are no voids to speek of in a swaged bullet, and all the bullets in one lot will weigh about .05 grains or less in difference. Also, you can vary the weight from one lot to the next  by 1 to 70 grains if you want.

[HWooldridge]

BJJ,

This will probably P-off a few diehards but as near as I can tell, the only reason for the paper patch projectile is to protect a softer alloy from leading the barrel when trying to drive the bullet at higher velocity.  I shoot both PP and plain old grease groove lead bullets and can't honestly see a lot of difference in accuracy between the two styles.  However, I also built a swage in our machine shop to slightly reduce the size and weight of my cast PP bullets.  This has made a great improvement since I can keep all but the most deformed slugs because they are cold worked in the swage so imperfections are "ironed out".  As Talon stated, my weights are now very close as any excess lead is bled out during the squeeze.  Since I am primarily a hunter, the soft PP bullet works quite well for my purposes but the traditional greased bullet is also hard to beat.

[Donna]

Bullet making either by casting or swaging is an art form like painting or drawing is an art form. Swaging is not better than casting nor is PP better than traditional greased bullet or vica versa. Is painting with acrylic better then painting watercolors? No. It is only better if you can do one and not the other. To me swaging is only better because I cannot cast. But I have seen casters place their bullet on an 18-inch gong at well over 1,000 yards, I cannot shoot that good no matter how good my swaged bullets are. And for versatility there is plenty to do in casting, PP’ing, blending of the metals, and creating new and different molds. So, no, one is not better than the other. There are reasons for doing one over the other. I know a guy that cast for 25 ACP, why, because he loves to cast. I love to swage because I love to swage and I cannot cast. The superiority of the caster or swagger is in who is doing it more than what s/he is doing. Although I do agree that swaging is easier than casting

Yes, you can get into swaging to some degree for very little money; I recently sold a press for $25.00. But now as you go up in capability and complexity the cost goes up very rapidly. But I bought a swaging press for almost the same price as I paid for my Forster/Bonanza Co-Ax reloading press. So there is a price level for everyone, you just have to wait and look hard.

Donna :wink:

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

HWoolridge,

I don't intend to replace my grease-grooved bullets with paper patched bullets.  I intend to replace store-bought copper jacketed bullets with paper patched bullets.  

For plinking, I can cast a whole lot of wheel-weight alloyed bullets which suffices for punching paper, blasting milk jugs, and ringing gongs.

But for deer, I want something that can shoot faster and expand better than wheel-weight cast bullets.  Normally I used factory jacketed loads.  But now that I've found paper patching, I want to give that a try.

After reading your post and Donna's I don't think I'll rush out and get any new swagin equipment.  

Less than .05 grain variation?  Or did you mean less than 0.5 grain?  My balance only goes to 0.1 grain increments.

You say swaging is easier?  Is it really easier than pouring lead into a mold?  How many bullets can you swage in an hour?

[talon]

In swaging you can certainly cut the variation down to less than .1 grain, especially if you use swaged wire rather than cast cores to form the bullets, and take your time. This is because in casting cores most people unintentionally change the melt composition and therby change density. This is what helps make cast bullets in the day's effort so different in weight, and the same problem affects casted swaging cores.   As to how many bullets can be made in a minute, most of my concentration goes into that slight hesitation at the top end of the stroke. But, I think 5 or 6 lead bullets per minute is attainable. More than that and I think quality would suffer. And, like casting, you have to take breaks from time to time to "check things out". Most of the lead pistol bullets I make have the Base Guard setup, but I believe the production rate isn't affected much by this added component. One of the disadvantages of soft lead bullets is the velocity you are held to: In casting you can use hard lead. Swaging is limited to soft lead(BnH 5.5 max), so you just about have to use paper/checks/BGs. As Donna said, there are pros and cons to each method of bullet making. Swaging is much more versitile, but not necessarily better (or less expensive) in the area of lead(only) bullets. [What takes the time in swaging is the initial die set up and adjustments and weighing the bullets until you get the exact weight you want. This takes less time, thou,  than waiting for your casting furnace to reach temp, and fluxing.]  

[Donna]

People are in such a big hurry, how fast can you do this or how many can you make per hour. Stop every once in a while, sit quietly and listen to the soft voice :roll:  and smell a flower. It is not how many can you make per hour but how many good bullets can be made in what ever time you wish to donate to the hobby. I cannot cast a good bullet to save my life but I feel I can make great swaged bullets and I don’t worry about how fast can I crank out bullets, I just sit back, relax, and enjoy my hobby. And in a week I find out I’ve made a thousand or so bullets that can take that deer or match. If you want quantity buy several thousand bullets in a matter of minutes. If you want quality that takes a little more time.

That is exactly why any soft lead is patched whether it is paper, cloth, or metal to prevent the lead from leading the barrel. When metal-jacketed bullets started they were called metal-patched bullets, like the paper patching if it would have lasted longer it might now be known as paper jacketed bullets. But in reality that is what they are and any time you add a jacket to a bullet your protecting the soft lead from the barrel.

Donna :wink:

[SINGLETREE 45]

You're so right Donna . You gotta take it slow and enjoy what you do.
I just received my new Walnut Hill press from RCE and really like it. I just got it mounted on my reloading bench & turned out 25 near perfect bullets for my Sharps. The bullets are .447 Dia paper patch. They look great, I hope they shoot that good