Indoctrination-first grade!

[Shorty]

My granddaughter, age 6, came home from school with an assignment to expound on ways to improve the world.  Heavy s--t, eh?  One of the options was about ridding the world of GUNS, which she had chosen!  When she asked my daughter to help her, my daughter said to her, "Mommy has guns.  Do you think Mommy would be happy if some one came and took away her guns?"  Well, no.  "Who else do you know who has guns?"  Grampa (that's me) has a lot of guns.  "Do you think Grampa would be happy if some one came and took away his guns?"  Well, no.  "Well, the next time your teacher gives you an assignment, THINK for yourself!"  
"Teach, your children well..."   :-)

[Loader 3009]

Shorty, it seems we spend a good bit of time and effort countering with what is done with our tax dollars.  Something is bad wrong with this.

[jgalar]

Years ago my first or second grader came home from school all upset because all the trees are gone. We lived in New Hampshire at the time. I took him outside and asked "Can you see the mountains over there?" He couldn't. I told him the reason why was because of all the trees. The only time the mountains were visible was in the winter when all the leaves had fallen. That was his first home taught lesson about political activism.

In third grade he came home all upset because he is white! He had a student teacher that was Native American. I did volunteer work at the school so I sat in on some of her tales of Indian woes. The biggest bunch of bull crap that I had ever heard. I talked to the girl later and found out her father was in the USAF and was stationed in England - she had spent most of her life living in England. I had a conference with the principal and said I wanted the political BS stopped. I told my son she was full of crap and told him that there are whinny people who make up lies to support their anti-American views.

You really have to watch what propaganda some teachers try to feed your children.

[Shorty]

I think that the problem with teachers is that most of them have spent their entire lives in classrooms, learning second-hand "truths", rather than experiencing the real world for themselves.  
They remind me of psychologists (or Roman Catholic priests) who counsel marriage or child-rearing when they are neither married nor have children.   :roll:

[ironglow]

I'm with Shorty on this one...

    How many teachers that you know, outside their 4 or so years at a liberal/puke college somewhere, have ever done anything but sit in a classroom.
   Just like many of the Liberal/puke professors in those colleges...many of whom have never had a hard working, honest job in their lives.
 
   I have a brother that has spent 30 or so years teaching. Now, he's my brother and I love him....but he is hopelessly liberal!!!
   Outside of 2 years in the Army during the Viet Nam thing (he managed a field house at Ft. Dix), his whole life has been from classroom to college
classroom, back to classroom and gym.
    All his vocational contacts are just as hopelessly Liberal....so naturally hey thinks that "hopelessly Liberal" is the political center.

   Most people in academia are so very inexperienced in the "real world", that they are completely out of touch!  
   The real pity is that they are not even aware that they are so far out of step!

   We all have heard how in years past, some rustic raised on the family farm, and only associating with people in their own small village who attend the same church, attend  the same local grange and attended the same local school...is just so limited in experience, that he is considered a naieve hick!
  Then how is the academician that limits him/herself in the same ways, supposed to be so filled with  genuinely comprehensive knowledge and experience?

[williamlayton]

I'm a little confused by the conversation here.
why are we confusing education with liberalism. If taken in that context- one would have to say ignorance produces conservatism.
I consider myownself to be somewhat educated and somewhat conservative. Wm F. Buckley is somewhat educated, very pro-intellectual and, having read some of his writings, VERY VERY conservative.
Lets take a look at our stance a little further. Most liberals, that I know, really are not very smart, not very educated and like a lot of folks on the right, as adamant that the other side is hopelessly ignorant.
The point is, neither side has a lock on brains and, well, I don't either.
Blessings

[Shorty]

williamlayton,
Teachers are NOT always "educated" OR smart.  When I went to college, Education (and Journalism) were the "gut" majors for draft-dodgers and the minimally qualified.  Sure, that's a generalization, but it's been found to be true today, as teacher qualifications have come under scrutiny.  
Real education comes with living various life experiences.  Too many teachers never get out of their ivory towers.  I once knew a couple who were both teachers.  He worked his summers as a carpenter.  She spent her summers at home.  Guess which one was conservative and which was liberal.

[Swamp Fox]

Any closed social group will reinforce thier own misconceptions.

Politics, management, education or religon. Enableing each others view of the world and themselves, whether true or not, is the reason those with common beliefs gather.

[williamlayton]

Well we can go into the coversation, which could never be resolved, con cerning teachers and the education of others.
I think, just me thinking, Education is a combination of the home and school. It is a wise parent who is concerned and wishes for his/her children to attain enough knowledge to be able to function in society. This is generally a working relationship with the school and teacher or there is the alternative to church schools and/or home schooling. The thought is, I really doubt anyone is going to be able to isolate a child from being influenced by anybody who is less/more consevative/liberal than you wish your child to be.
The general trend in calling teachers to task today is not really their ability to teach. The main problem is trying to blame them for Jane or John not learning when he/she is not getting support from home. A child, generally, will only do what is expected of him. I think parents send their children to school to be raised. I think most parents tend to blame the school system for failure when they, theirownselves, do not put any effort into reinforcing the learning process and just let the children, who they have brought into the world, just evolve without any parental direction and control.
Kind of like saying a dentist is bad because a child has cavities but no expectation of that child to brush is reinforced at home.
Too many parents are not parents, too many children are expected to learn when their is no reinforcement at home.
I love you, however, I am most offended by the statement that those who aspired to be teachers were on the low end of the intellectual scale and were draft dodger. That, my friend, is a very ignorant statement.
Blessings

[papajohn428]

Life experiences, including education, open the mind to new possibilities.

Pure academic theory is based on the experiences of other people, and may or may not be relevant.

Education is only half of what learning is about.  Kids need to learn to read, write, do their own math, and think for themselves.  

Having some classroom-only educated Liberal preaching their gospel to my kids is indoctrination.   :roll:

Fortunately, kids are also smart enough to question what they hear, ask questions, and form their own opinions.

If they are properly raised, they will question authority all their lives.  Just like me.  Never stopped, never gonna.

Are teachers underpaid?  Only the good ones!   :wink:

My pair of pennies.

PJ

[williamlayton]

are teachers underpaid? only the good ones.

Kinda like evebody else.
Blessings

[Spencer]

Not to get off topic, but I often, as in this thread, hear the term "Ivory Tower"  I know what is meant by it, but where did this term come from, why is it called the ivory tower??
Thanks

[doc_kreipke]

...I know what is meant by it, but where did this term come from, why is it called the ivory tower??
Thanks

Found this tidbit:

http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-ivo1.htm

[Spencer]

Thanks, It was just what I was looking for in an explanation.
Spencer

[ironglow]

William;
  Sorry for your confusion; but it need not be so!
 
   You will note that nowhere did any poster say to be educated is to be ignorant. That would be a difficult statement to defend.
   I was not speaking about the education so much as it's practical application!
   You can look down the list of well known Liberals and Conservatives and you will find that both are educated about as well.
   If you look closer...you will often find that the conservatives have generally, the more "life experience".
  Compare G W Bush to Wm Clinton , for instance: both went to good colleges...but who worked as an oil worker, owned a business(baseball team) and runs a ranch and who has only been on the government payroll all his life?
   Now compare GW Bush or Dick Cheney to Al Gore or John Kerry...whoi has worked at various jobs and ran various businesses along with paying a payroll   and who has lived off the government all his adult life?
  Compare George H Bush to Wm Clinton or Algore ...George H started out drilling wells.
   Education is a great boost to doing great things, if one moves beyond the Liberal tripe one is served up in great helpings in most of today's colleges, especially the Ivy league schools.
  Unfortunately, many former college students never leave that Liberal cocoon....they stay wrapped in such liberal propaganda on throughout their vacational/social life and have a very narrow view; all along believing they "have the big picture".
   For instance; Liberals are the ones against putting convicted criminals to work at "hard labor" why? Because so few of them have done any real hard labor...they are afraid of it!
  In my life, I have worked at very hard labor in such jobs as concrete silo building or in a brick yard, loading boxcars by hand with tongs. On one job, stacking the concrete silo staves in cold NY winters, it was computed that each of us stackers moved a total of 250 ft. tons each day!
   What the stupid Liberals who have never worked at hard labor don't understand is this:
  There are many folks out in the real world that are working at very hard labor, and paying taxes. The taxes these hard working people are paying go to support criminals in the klink, that need not do hard labor (but have a complete gym).
   If these Liberals had ever worked at anything but a public dole job;
 if they had ever truly lived by their own sweat, they might understand where most of us come from.

   You see, there are highly educated Conservatives also, but they have a logical, common sense outlook, usually from experience.

   For the bleeding heart Liberals....
   
   Alexander Pope put it quite succinctly:

      "The bookful blockhead, ignorantly read;
         With loads of learned lumber in his head!"

                                 


                                                       SELAH!

[williamlayton]

Well-couple of thoughts.
The overall thought on this thread is--only consevatives have life experiences. I really think this is an over generalization. Life experiences form both the consevative and liberal. To say that any liberal cannot think past a textbook is simply putting your head in the sand and not trying to understand the thought. You may not agree or you may feel there is a better way, and you may well be correct. The object is to examine all and determine for yourownself the best course. Give those who disagree the same LIBERTY.
I hate labels, for none of us are truly liberal or consevative. Those who are, well, those are generally found in history to be destroyers, not builders. If you think for yourownself, well, then you are pretty liberal. If you allow yourself to follow any charismatic type, without any thought on your own part, is neither conservative or liberal, and to me, is scary.
If you look at voting records in this country, I think, you will find we are a land of followers and we are dooming ourownselves. Our rant and displeasure should be aimed at those who do not care rather than those who care with a passion, be it liberal or consevative.
Blessings

[ironglow]

William;
    Please read my posts a bit more carefully......
   Did you notice that I used the  adjective "generally" in describing the experiences of both extremes ...read again, I DID NOT say "only" Conservatives, as you claim.
   Note also William; I DID NOT say that "any" Liberal cannot think beyond a text book......AGAIN!...."generally" is the operative word!
 
     Try working with the concept of generalization! There are exceptions to every rule, so it is very often necessary to work in generalizations in order to grasp even a rudimentary view of a situation.
   
     Case in point; I have seen Rep. Howard Ford (d) of Tennessee do some very constructive thinking, as Mr. Hamilton on the 9/11 commission has also done. Yet there are others (on the 9/11 commission) like Mr. Beneviste (sp), that obviously does not engage logical thinking. Yes, there are Conservatives that behave the same way; but GENERALLY the balance of "knee-jerk" thinking weighs heavily on the Neo-Lib side!
   
  Yes, life experience does count greatly....when do you suppose, was the last time Hitlary Clinton has scrubbed floors or served burgers at MacDonalds? The lack of life experiences clearly shows!  

   One would indeed have to have their "head in the sand", not to observe that GENERALLY, the Conservatives raise their children to the tune of "hard work first, and earn your way into a place of leadership" while GENERALLY the rich Neo-Libs ( as compared to our  true Liberals of 1776), tend to foster the idea that their children are too good to do "common labor"....again; compare the Bush family to the Kennedy or Kerry family!

[williamlayton]

Ironglow-
I chose to ignore your first reply to ME as it was, in my opinion, childish. As my reply was not directed too you it is a wonder how it could be taken personally. Mine was a general observation of the conversation.
I really wish you would not be as paranoid as your post to appear to me. I respect your right to think as you wish. I, however, do not agree with you and I do think you are generalizing.
Generalizations, such as you tend to lean on, do nothing for those who are stylized as such as you describe but are not. There are some here who either choose not to think for themselves or are just followers. They may actually believe everything you say and condemn all in the manner you are discussing.
It would be proper, in my opinion, when discussing this topic to stick to specific persons with whom you disagree and why you disagree.
Before you even say it, I doubt very seriously that you are as conservative as I.  
Blessings

[ironglow]

I'm just Conservative enough to refrain from defending hopeless Liberals!

       Over and Out!