25-444ai case forming question

[stratocaster]

Hello all,
I am in the process of doing a 25-444ai (basically a 257 Roberts improved with a rim) and am undecided as to my necking down die sequence. I was thinking of using a (1) 308fl, (2) 7-08fl, (3) 6.5 neck die (just because I already have one) and then finally the 257 roberts ai fl die. Any tips or suggestions? My other idea was to just use a 30-06 fl die followed by a 25-06 fl die. This will put the shoulder about .25" too far foward and then the 257 Roberts ai die to correctly place the shoulder. My only concern with this process is that I am unsure if I can push the shoulder that far back with the 257ai die. I'll probably try this route first because I alredy have the 30-06 and 25-06 dies. Going from 30 to 25 with the 25-06 die is no problem.  I tried this and it worked fine for my 25-06 cases for the encore barrel that I recently sold (biggest mistake ever - Tom Krupinski, are you reading this?!lol).
Any tips will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[onesonek]

Hi SC,
  You don't say, but are you starting with 444 brass? I would think you need too, step these down at least twice to .308 (maybe three times), then to .25.
But being lazy as I am. I would buy 309 brass from SSK, and start from there. Then I think I would use 3 steps, eliminating (?) possible failures in the shoulder area.
Sounds like a good one though, however you get there!!! I was thinking of doing it similarly with 6mmAI.
Dave

[stratocaster]

Thanks onesonek.  The tip of using ssk's 309 brass is a great idea.  From my understanding and research, it is possible to go directly from 444 to 308.  BTW, I was planning on using 444 brass.  I'm going to order a small supply of 444 brass tonight and see how it goes using the 30-06 and 25-06 dies.  
If this doesn't work, I'll have to buy a 306fl and a 7-08fl die.  I was thinking of buying a set of Lee dies for this.  I have never used Lee dies before, always Redding or RCBS.  What's the opinion on them?  I can get a set of 308 for $10 from Midsouth and a bit under $20 for the 7-08.   Even at these prices, am I wasting my money?  Would I be better off just going with a Redding or RCBS ?
Thanks again!

[onesonek]

I don't have any experience with Lee dies.  Well, I do have a old 8x57 set that I used to neck down the 9x74 R case, for an experiment.  But for your plan, they should be more than good enough.  Which I think you'll end up doing. As your 06 dies might be alittle long, not forming enough neck.  I'm thinking you might end up with a wrinkled shoulder on your final forming in the 25-444 die.  Then again, it can't hurt to try.  You may ruin a case, or may not. If not you'll save on forming dies.  Keep us informed on your progress. I for one am interested!
Good Luck
Dave

[Joe Kool]

stratocaster, when I form cases, I lube with Imperial Sizing Wax, which is now available from Redding. It's allows me to size cases down in larger steps and the finished case is nicer then any other lube I've tried. I even use it on the inside of the necks when necking up. I also use this lube for my normal resizing.  

[Fla Brian]

Stratocaster,

I used to use RCBS dies almost exclusively, but now I go with Lee. They do the job just as well as the higher priced spread - at a much lower price. They also come with the shell holder, and I like the "floating" seater very much.

I find myself using more and more Lee equipment as time goes by. Richard Lee is quite an innovator with interesting ways of accomplishing reloading tasks. Since I started using his case trimming system, for example, I've all but put my RCBS unit in mothballs.

[papajohn428]

I'll second the vote for Lee dies and equipment, the only die problems I've ever encountered happened when I was NOT using Lee dies, hence my prejudice.  I do love a bargain!  

What kind of velocities do you expect from your new beast?

PJ

[Donna]

I don’t intend to knock your idea with this question because I think it’s interesting. But I’m just curious and I was hoping you guys could help me out with this? Would not the case capacity to bore diameter be a bit too much, like eat barrels?

donna

[stratocaster]

Hi Donna,
All I'm really doing is making 257 Roberts Improved brass out of 444 Marlin brass.  I just prefer to have a rimmed cartridge in an Encore.

[Donna]

Thank you. That really sounds cool. Good luck!!!

Donna

[stratocaster]

Thanks Donna!
I just ordered the barrel from VanHorn Friday and a bunch of dies from Midway to neck down the 444 brass (I already had the 257ai dies).  It should be fun.  Once I get everything all set up I'll post my results.

[Bigboar]

This is too late to the table but would't it be easier or the same as 257-30/40 Craig AI.  A friend has one and it's a screamer.

bigboar

[stratocaster]

I'm not sure of the dimensions of the 30/40 case, but the 30/40 cases are very weak as compared to the 444.

 BTW, I have necked down and loaded 200 rounds of the 25-444.  It wasn't near as bad as I thought.  The key is to start with trimmed, squared up case mouths.  I don't even need to use the 358 die.  I first trim the brass to square up the case mouths.  Then I run it through a 308 die, then the 7-08 die and then finally the 25-444 die.  At this point I anneal the brass and then put them in a tumbler for a few hours to clean them up.  I then run them through the 25-444ai die again, trim to length, chamfer, debur, flash hole debur, and uniform the primer pockets and then load.  My plan is that once I fire form, I will anneal one more time.  

Now I just have to wait for the barrel to get here!