W 296 in the 357 max

[mag41vance]

My point is I would like the most accurate round in my max. I have always been a proponent of accuracy first then velocity. I think part of the problem developing consistency with the NEF rifle is the fact that it was intended to be a 357 Magnum. If it had been designed to be a max, perhaps the rifling would have been different. (just a thought). I have seen potential in this rifle but not consistency. This is a group I tested today,
  All five shots were 50 yards off of sandbags; two tight groups or one large one. A little frustrating. I am very new to this reloading so, I'm being very careful with each round.

[Paul5388]

Part of the variation in groups could be from varying the actual resting point from shot to shot.  

Part of it could come from the forearm varying in its position/tension from shot to shot.

Part of it could come from barrel heat changing the clearance between it and the forearm.

You didn't say, but I would suspicion the top two shots were the first two and then the bottom three after the barrel heated up some.

The first thing I would do is check the barrel to forearm clearance, before you shoot and then while you are shooting and make sure you can pass a folded dollar bill all the way to the end of the forearm at all times while you are shooting.

Then I would make sure the forearm is tightened pretty snug and still has the necessary clearance.

This is just a guess on my part, but that seems to be what I have found to be the problem with vertical stringing and changing POI.

[mag41vance]

Part of the variation in groups could be from varying the actual resting point from shot to shot.  

Part of it could come from the forearm varying in its position/tension from shot to shot.

Part of it could come from barrel heat changing the clearance between it and the forearm.

You didn't say, but I would suspicion the top two shots were the first two and then the bottom three after the barrel heated up some

 

  The top two shots were the first and the third. I suspect inconsistency in the crimp setting were the culprit.

[scruffy]

Is your scope parallax free set at 100 yards like most rifle scopes??? If so shooting at 50 yards the paralax might be biting you.  An easy way to test it is with the rifle up on bags positioned on the target.  Now move your eye around, up/down/left/right, and see if the crossairs move on the target or stay put centered on the bulls eye.

For shooting at 50 yards you might want to consider a shotgun scope since most of them are parallax free at 50 yards.

If I'm preaching to the choir, please forgive me.

later,
scruffy

[mag41vance]

Is your scope parallax free set at 100 yards like most rifle scopes??? If so shooting at 50 yards the paralax might be biting you.  An easy way to test it is with the rifle up on bags positioned on the target.  Now move your eye around, up/down/left/right, and see if the crossairs move on the target or stay put centered on the bulls eye.

For shooting at 50 yards you might want to consider a shotgun scope since most of them are parallax free at 50 yards.

If I'm preaching to the choir, please forgive me.

later,
scruffy

   The scope I'm using is 4-16x44 with an adjustable objective from 10-250 yards, so paralax better not be the issue or I will be steamed!
  I like preaching! Now turn the page and keep preachin! :lol:  
                          RV

[scruffy]

Ok, I'll keep preeching,  :wink: , might lead to something, who knows.

Did the barrel have any fouling shots between when the barrel was cleaned and this group?  One of my sportsters, for whatever reason, firest high and left over an inch for the first shot, and maybe the second and third, before settling in.

Edit: I know the answer will be yes, I know you're not a rookie, but just thinking out loud.

later,
scruffy

[22KHornet]

Are you using a small rifle primer?  The max will need the small rifle.   16.5 grns of 296 also seems pretty light.  I load 21 grns for my 10" contender barrel and have not had any problems.  Not sure where I heard it but I think I remember someone telling me to light of loads can cause problems with accuracy???

[mag41vance]

16.5 grns of 296 Is right out of the Nosler Manual 357 Maximum data for 180 gr JHP (listed as most accurate load tested).

 "Edit: I know the answer will be yes, I know you're not a rookie, but just thinking out loud.  

later,
scruffy"     :shock:  
I just put together 10 rounds with 17 grains of w-296 and I hope to wake up my In-laws tomorrow morning testing them.  :evil:
   vANCe

[Lone Star]

Is this pattern normal for this rifle?  If it is, then the problem is most likely a mechanical one.  Two distinct POI means that either the barrel or the scope internals are moving between two distinct locations.  

This is often a scope issue.  I don't know the brand of scope, but Handi owners often buy inexpensive scopes to compliment their inexpensive rifles.  "Cheap" scopes can suffer from poor internals with a reticle shifting between two points randomly depending on recoil forces.  Actually this can and does happen with top-of-the-line scopes too, but much less often.  Install a different scope and see how the barrel performs.  I assume that the scope mounts are tight and are not shifting.....

The simplicity of the Handi makes barrel shifting less likely but possible.  I would not expect minor shifting of the forend itself to have this much of an impact on POI with a mild cartridge like the .357 Max, but it is possible.  Is the barrel tight in the frame when the action is closed?

The rifling type would not be the cause of this issue.  The rifle shoots nice, tight groups - it just puts them into two different places.   :cry:

[Leftoverdj]

The crimp now seems the likeliest, but I was reminded of something while I was shooting this afternoon. I get far better groups if I remember to fluff the sandbags between each shot. Forget that and the sand compresses and groups open way up, usually in a vertical spread. Handis are far worse about this than my bolt guns.