Author Topic: Help with t7 and encore .45 (Read 2928 times)

TIGIT · « **on:** November 20, 2003, 04:49:51 PM »

Been reading posts for a while now and trying to figure out best load.
Alot of guys have been specific to pellets or loose powder but not granulation.
2f or 3f. Thanks in advance.
I was trying to get good performance with precision rifles .357 200g dead center bullet ahead of 120g of t7 3f.
Just got 2nd barrel from T/C and planning to try same load. Any experience or info would be appreciated

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2003, 12:26:48 PM »

Quote from: TIGIT

Been reading posts for a while now and trying to figure out best load.
Alot of guys have been specific to pellets or loose powder but not granulation.
2f or 3f. Thanks in advance.
I was trying to get good performance with precision rifles .357 200g dead center bullet ahead of 120g of t7 3f.
Just got 2nd barrel from T/C and planning to try same load. Any experience or info would be appreciated

The .40 caliber 200 or 220 grain Dead Center has given me better results, no more than 100 grains T 7 FFg.

tuck789 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2003, 06:26:18 AM »

I have had alot of problems with my encore. The best that I have found so far is 120gr loose powder FFFg 777 and 180gr Hornady XTP. I have used both weights powerbelts, Pyrodex, Maxiball, T/C shockwave, 155 and 180gr sabots fromT/C, lead up to 285gr and powder from 40 grains 777 to 150 grains pyrodex. It seems to like it hot and it does NOT like the oversized hinge pin. I have a Bushnell Trophy 4-12 that is quite nice for this type of ML. Hope this helps and hopefully more will post. I would like to try to find a combo that does not kick so hard!

savageT · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2003, 06:53:51 AM »

Quote from: tuck789

I have had alot of problems with my encore. The best that I have found so far is 120gr FFFg 777 and 180gr Hornady XTP. I have used both weights powerbelts, Pyrodex, Maxiball, T/C shockwave, 155 and 180gr sabots fromT/C, lead up to 285gr and powder from 40 grains 777 to 150 grains pyrodex. It seems to like it hot and it does NOT like the oversized hinge pin. I have a Bushnell Trophy 4-12 that is quite nice for this type of ML. Hope this helps and hopefully more will post. I would like to try to find a combo that does not kick so hard!

For what it's worth, all loads using pyrodex and T7 that worked best are 100 grains or less. If you want to ask the gentleman at precisionbullet.com has standardized his loads at 100gr. T7. You might e-mail him to ask what his recommendations are for his bullet combinations.
http://www.prbullet.com/escn.htm

TCAS · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2003, 02:36:45 PM »

My 45 would not shoot light bullets (195gr) with light charges of 777. by light I mean less than 100 grains. My barrel seem's to like hot charges. 3 shot groups at 200 yards around 2 inchs or slightly larger.

My gun does have a bench rest forearm/High power scope/ custom barrel/and it does seem to help. And I spit swap the barrel 2 times between shots. This is my load:

777 120g
195g Dead Center (.357)
Hornet conversion breech plug

With this load the Hornet is more accurate than 209 primer. But other loads shot better with the 209, come to think of it most of the 209 loads that shot well were around 90-100 grain 777

Several folks with the 45's seem to like around 120 grains of 777 give a try. but be sure to use some grease on the breech threads.

TCAS

tuck789 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2003, 06:30:12 AM »

I have been pretty upset buying the encore which by no means is cheap for a muzzleloader. Playing with bullets and powder is getting to be quite expensive. Reasonably I should expect to have a good shooting gun for the price I paid and the name that is on it. I have shot other T/C and they shot excellent but being left handed has limited the usefulness of many muzzleloaders. The custom shops may get better accuracy but the barrels cost as much as a new gun. Am I missing something by expecting great accuracy from the encore without throwing another 500 bucks into the gun to get it to do what it should have in the first place. If it sounds like I am irritated it is because I have been and everytime I try something else I become more irritated. The dead center look good but I cannot get past the cost of shooting them. I already am loading up the gun in powder because I have seen the groups shrink with more powder but if I bought dead center I could afford a S&W 500 round for the same money as the muzzleloader would cost to shoot! That is not the greatest comparison but it does prove my point. I should not have to spend 1000 bucks to get an ambidextrous gun that needs 2 dollar per shot ammo. I can shoot the XTP hornady and expect about 3.5" groups at 90 yards. Powerbelts are all over the map, most of the time I am lucky to get within 10 inches of bullseye. Maybe I want the best of both worlds, to push 180 yard shots without hesitation with a stock gun. The black diamond did it 173 yards into the heart, but the safety is hard to reach. Here in Ohio since shotguns have such short range and rifles are out of the question muzzleloader is the only other option to gain distance. Granted I have shot numerous deer and every shot that I have taken with the encore at deer have found there mark but they were all less than 90 yards and when that trophy buck steps out at 150 I want to be sure of a clean kill and a mount on my wall.
Just my opinion

savageT · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2003, 11:19:57 AM »

tuck789,
My impression is that you will never be satisfied with this encore...........Do yourself a favor and sell it. Most folk aren't looking for 180 yd. sub-moa requirements. You may find one that will do just that, but then again, maybe not! Perhaps a 12 ga. rifled bbl. shotgun will do better?

Jim

tuck789 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2003, 03:41:17 PM »

I am currently working on doing just that. Does anyone have any experience with the winchester apex? The Omega sports the same barrel as the encore so I do not even want to atempt that road. I am open also to other muzzleloaders that can be used by left handers, limited supply for those creative ones. Wonder if I could talk T/C into a custom made black diamond. lol
Thanks

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2003, 04:29:29 PM »

Quote from: tuck789

The dead center look good but I cannot get past the cost of shooting them. I already am loading up the gun in powder because I have seen the groups shrink with more powder but if I bought dead center

The Dead Centers are well worth it-- if you buy them in bulk. Http://www.prbullet.com, see fall specials. Even if you don't plan on shooting a great deal, you can split them 2, 3 , 4 ways. 52 cents a bullet is not free, but you can certainly spend a lot more. A lot more.

As far as your gun, of course I have not seen it, but floating the forearm has given me the most remarkable results.

upnorth · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2003, 04:33:13 PM »

Isn't that the best way to justify all the money you spend on hunting crap to the wife...... but honey, I'm still working up a load for it!!!

Omega · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2003, 04:34:45 PM »

Quote from: tuck789

I am currently working on doing just that. Does anyone have any experience with the winchester apex? The Omega sports the same barrel as the encore so I do not even want to atempt that road. I am open also to other muzzleloaders that can be used by left handers, limited supply for those creative ones. Wonder if I could talk T/C into a custom made black diamond. lol
Thanks

I own two sub 1 inch @ 100 yards 50 cal Omegas. My Encore occasionally goes sub 1" at 100 yards but is a 1 1/4" gun day in and out. There are very few ML's that shoot sub 1" groups with 150 grains of powder but the Omegas do it very well and it isn't just mine, several buddies do the same. What bullets have you tried other than the PR? PR's have never shot for me in anything don't think there is something wrong just because they don't in yours.
Rich

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2003, 04:50:25 PM »

Omega,

I don't think we are even there, yet. I see 3-1/2" with XTP's, spraying with Powerbelts.

If you are convinced that it is the gun, and not other factors-- time to call T/C. Most of their barrels are either "very good" or very bad. Perhaps you just have a rough barrel, or even one of the 1:20 twist versions?

tuck789 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2003, 04:12:59 AM »

I have checked the twist and it is the 1:28 barrel. I have shot the T/C 155 and 180 grain sabots with the green sabot. I have shot T/C shockwave. The hornady lead conicals. The maxi hunter, Power belts in 195 and 225, Horandy XTP, there is one more lead bullet that weighs 355gr but I cannot remember the brand. I have varied my powder from loose FFFg T7 40-120 grains mostly in 10 grain increments. I have read that the knight powerbelts are oversized can anyone confirm that? I will check into buying bulk I was looking at the packs of dead centers and got discouraged with the price. I have also tried the pyrodex from 50 to 150 grains pellets. I have called T/C once and they gave me a load to try but when inquiring about what else it might be ie the barrel they were reluctant to oofer much help. I guess the next step is to send it back to them I was just worried that they would not have much to offer in advice, from some of the other postings people have gotten some of there barrels back with not much improvement. I could handle the dead center at 52 cents because the power belts are running $13 for 20.
Thanks I will let you know what decide and try.
Scott

Underclocked · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2003, 05:23:20 AM »

:eek: :shock: RW is a moderator!!!!??? Wouldn't that require being "moderate"?

sheephunterab · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2003, 06:00:58 AM »

Quote

RW is a moderator!!!!??? Wouldn't that require being "moderate"?

Don't be so hard on him UC, once you've endured his wrath a couple times he mellows right out. It's kind of like joining a fraternity, you need to go through "Hell Week"

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2003, 06:27:28 AM »

Quote from: Underclocked

:eek: :shock: RW is a moderator!!!!??? Wouldn't that require being "moderate"?

Greybeard phrased it as being something else, just a suc--- or whatever.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2003, 06:29:56 AM »

Quote from: sheephunterab

Quote
RW is a moderator!!!!??? Wouldn't that require being "moderate"?

Don't be so hard on him UC, once you've endured his wrath a couple times he mellows right out. It's kind of like joining a fraternity, you need to go through "Hell Week"

The wrath of the Great Underclocked, itself, is not for the squeamish. :eek:

tuck789 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2003, 01:46:14 AM »

I have tried the new dead centers and the first one shot great. Even the second did not shoot horrible but the third was a few inches away from the first two shots. I swabbed the barrel and it moved it a few inches closer to the first shot. I tried swabbing the barrel several times to get it as close to origninal clean as I could. Again the group that "grouping" were around 5" @ 100 yards. 2 flyers would put the group pushing 10". The last thing I was thinking about was the breech plug conversion. I was wondering why not just use a 32acp case instead of the 22 hornet? Would not have to trim nearly as much. I was shooting 120 grain T7 FFFg with 175gr 45cal dead center. Anyone have any ideas?

tedfl · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:28:49 AM »

turk789:
I went through the same frustrations you are going through with my 50 cal Encore.
To get the 1 inch group at 100 yds as advertised by T/C, I ended up shooting 130 to 150 gr of Pyrodex and a 300 gr .451 dia Hornady bullet. It is not pleasant to shoot but I did manage to shoot some 3 shot, 3/4 inch groups at 100 yds.

tuck789 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2003, 11:54:41 AM »

I am going to do the breech plug conversion, but instead of the 22 hornet I am going to use a 25 acp case with the small pistol primer. The length is shorter than the hornets trimmed down so I will not have to modify the breech plug much. The diameter is just a little larger. I will post what I find out.
Thanks

wild willy · « **Reply #20 on:** April 04, 2004, 02:45:21 PM »

Have you got anything to work in your .45 encore I have one that shoots terrible also

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #21 on:** April 04, 2004, 04:59:16 PM »

Quote

.45 encore I have one that shoots terrible also

If it truly shoots "terrible," send it back to Thompson. That's what their lifetime warranty is for, and they do stand behind it-- though not as instantly as we would all prefer.