Author Topic: Did my bullet fail?  (Read 811 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline azshooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
Did my bullet fail?
« on: April 02, 2004, 11:15:49 AM »
This is really an academic question but wondering what the opinions were here.  I shot 2 Buffalo yesterday with the my 300 WSM and 180 gr Winchester CT Failsafe bullet.  Both were head shots and had an exit wound on the other side of the head - both dropped in their tracks.  The bullet passed through about 2 inches of skull through the brain and then another two inches of skull with a small exit.  Caping the head this morning I find these:  
http://members.cox.net/markstev/BulletSmall.JPG  

Bearing in mind it dropped like a ton of bricks and it appears the only part that made it out the other side was perhaps the steel cup in the Failsafe bullet.  Personally - I am impressed it it did so well on such a hard headed animal and would ont hesitate to use the Failsafe again.  Does bullet failure mean it came apart or does it mean it it did not penetrate?  Just what is the definition of bullet failure?

Offline Varmint Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2004, 01:10:56 PM »
2 shots - 2 dead buffalos - 2 total pentrations

Bullet failure??????????????? :?

What you should have tried was a Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip.
SPLAAAAATTTT! :eek:

VH

Offline New Hampshire

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 996
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2004, 03:27:08 PM »
I think it might have been Clint Smith who wrote "It aint about what the bullet looks like in the end, rather its about what it did."  Not an exact quote, but you get the idea.  @ shots 2 kills.....works for me.
Brian M.
NRA Life Member
Member Londonderry Fish and Game Club
Member North American Fishing Club
Member North American Hunting Club
Member New Hampshire Historical Society
Member International Blackpowder Hunting Association

Offline longwinters

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2004, 04:08:43 PM »
I would think that those bullets did well going thru that much bone.  I mean 4 inches of bone is a tad more than just a shoulder etc...  Congratulations.

long
Life is short......eternity is long.

Offline gdolby

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 212
  • Gender: Male
curious
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2004, 05:05:04 PM »
I agree w/ all above. Dead buffs = good performance. Just curious what distance were you shooting from? congratulations and more good hunts

Offline azshooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
Re: curious
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2004, 05:46:18 PM »
Quote from: gdolby
I agree w/ all above. Dead buffs = good performance. Just curious what distance were you shooting from? congratulations and more good hunts


We were about 100 yards away.  I expected they would run off after the first one was shot but instead they all bunched up making the shooting the second one a waiting game; had to wait for a nice one to get in the clear. I guess the protective heard instinct is one opf the reasons they were almost wiped out by the commercial hunters of the 1800's.

Offline bigjeepman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1108
  • Gender: Male
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2004, 02:46:37 AM »
azshooter ...

congratulations on what was surely a very successful hunt ... 4" of skull ...wow ...

I have a .300wsm Win but have yet to use it in a hunting situation like you have experienced with yours. I bought mine with an anticipated future hunt for elk, mule deer, or bear.

Thanks for sharing your hunting results.
5 Rules for Happiness
free your heart from hatred ... free your mind from worries ... live simply ... give more ... expect less

Offline huntsman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2004, 05:54:19 AM »
My own definition of bullet failure is when a bullet does not do the job you expected from it. It really has nothing to do with what the bullet looks like afterwards.

Clearly you were trying to drop these bison in their tracks and your bullets did not fail in that respect. That they had enough mass left to form an exit wound (not a critical factor anyway on a central nervous system target) after traversing the thick skull of a bison is proof of their ability to do the job.

Great shooting and happy feasting on that bison meat! 8)
There is no more humbling experience for man than to be fully immersed in nature's artistry.

Offline Castaway

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1105
  • Gender: Male
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2004, 09:18:50 AM »
Bullet failure?  Again, to paraphrase an old adage, at what point in the animals demise did the bullet fail?  Seems to me the bullet did what it was designed to do and did it quiet well.  Dead is dead and you had no follow up shots or trailing to do.  Seems to me the bullet did what it was designed to do.

Offline Donna

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 436
    • http://www.aeroballisticsonline.com
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2004, 01:54:47 PM »
Hello azshooter, :D

Both Castaway and huntsman are correct in their academic assessment of bullet failure, it is when a bullet does not perform as it was designed and constructed to do so. And congratulations.

Donna :wink:
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:19-20

Offline Swamp Fox

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2004, 09:29:30 PM »
I have a 300 WSM. The idea that you would miss a 100 yd shot at a bison head would disturb me more than your success.

Buff is good table fare. Enjoy!
"We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can." —Cullen Hightower

Offline azshooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2004, 04:04:53 AM »
??Miss a 100 yard shot?? I'm not sure what you mean? There were 2 Bison - I made 2 shots - 1 shot per bison - both were head shots and dropped instantly.

Offline Tom W.

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
  • Gender: Male
  • Warning... Does not play well with others!
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2004, 10:02:41 AM »
Gun go boom, buff fall dead. Ain't that what it's supposed to do?
Tom
Alabama Hunter and firearms safety instructor

I really like my handguns!

Offline Black Jaque Janaviac

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2004, 06:12:42 AM »
No that wasn't bullet failure.

I would say you probably witnessed near the limits of that particular bullet's performance parameters.  In otherwords, you might not want to use that bullet for headshots on a cape buffalo (I'm assuming you shot an American Bison).

I don't think the designers of the bullet you used had 100 yard bison headshots with .300 Win Mag in mind when they were sketching up the details.  You pushed its limit and it did not fail.

Basically, a hunting bullet failure is when you failed to recover or would have failed to recover the animal because of the way the bullet performed.  Sometimes the bullet splatters and the animal runs off with one less leg but no damage to it's vitals.  Sometimes the bullet doesn't mushroom and the animal runs so far away you lose it.

There is no such thing as an idiot-proof bullet.  Although modern technology is closing the gap.  Idiots expect the same performance regardless of shot distance, shot placement, impact velocity, and game animal.  The wise shooter will understand that he must change his behavior when the variables change.
Black Jaque Janaviac - Dat's who!

Hawken - the gun that made the west wild!

Offline Daniel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 121
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2004, 06:22:00 AM »
I'd say that whether a bullet failed or not depends on the individual shooter's criteria. What do YOU want and expect that bullet to do. For me, failure means lack of complete penetration. I want a bullet that's going to exit just about 99.9% of the time (on deer sized game that is at close to medium range). If another shooter's criteria is different, then that's fine by me.

Offline azshooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2004, 04:56:33 PM »
Shot placement is one of those things you can not really plan for in advance.  My brother went out with one of his friends about a month ago and his friend shot a Buffalo(bison) 6 times with a 45-70 and it did not drop.  They were afraid it was going to get into a tough recovery situation. Finally a 7th shot hit it with a heart to put it down.  On both of the ones I took, given the toughness of a bison and the opportunity for a head shot I hink it worked out well.  The damage the FailSafe bullet dished out was pretty amazing.  I'm pretty much sold on the FailSafe after this experience.  It is nice to know the limits of what a bullet can do.

Offline Swamp Fox

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Did my bullet fail?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2004, 07:04:35 PM »
azshooter,

Sorry, I hadn't seen the pictures. Like others said, It was probably a bullet selection problem.

Most folks who are shooting through a lot of bone go with the solids.
"We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can." —Cullen Hightower