Hunter Silhouette Get a Grip

[Jerry G]

Well Casey, you sure started a lively discussion here but I didn't see you at the shoot Sat.  We had a snow storm and only 4 shooters.  1-WY, 1-ID, 2-UT.  Utah heeded your help.

Good Shooting

[K2]

Chunter,

We are in very close agreement and I welcome your input!  I am primarily a pistol silhouette shooter, but we have the same issues.  I am flat tired of rule changes by ambush and honestly rule changes more than once every 5 years and only then if their is a real issue rather than someone whining cause they got beat.  

equipment driven people will not be happy with a limited game where over the counter run of the mill equipment is the norm and over the counter guys won't be happy in the equipment race arena.  the solution is simple give both groups what they want and then get on with promoting the sport.

I am planning on doing just that with a new silhouette association that includes rifle, pistol, and black powder in both Muzzleloader and BPCR form.  It is going to take some time to get it going but I am convinced it can indeed work well for one very simple reason, Silhouette is fun if we let it be  

Those who are happy with the current association I say that's great and for those that want something new it should be available.  

As for the youth, I fully intend to have a functional jr. division that welcomes groups such as 4-H, scouts etc.  We need the youth and a simpler format is required if we are to attract them in any significant numbers.  I plan on setting things up so dual sanction matches are very doable with both the IHMSA and the NRA, with common distances and targets, and time limits but slightly different equipment rules.  

When it gets going it will benefit all the silhouette sports no matter what logo they have.

 

Sorry to hear I am doing "your" sport a disservice. I actually can't really see the difference in what I am doing from your sportsmens match, except that I keep the correct animals and the correct distances. From there shooters can decided whether they really want to move onto the actual silhouette leagues that are going on around the local states.  

I am getting people interested in shooting, and have young people also coming out to try these shooting sports.  In the end I don't plan on selling anyone on my ways,  I can tell you though, that I have saved a dying sport in our area.

The real issue in this post is that the shooting sports seem to be dying.  Granted as everyone wants to point out that technology is not the problem, partially.  The big issue comes down to peoples' attitudes. This post proves it. Peoples' attitudes are what fuel the technology races, the competiveness, and turn people away from the sport. If there were more shooters that were willing to step back and ask the question " is this the best thing for our sport" then we may see change.

If we can put ourselves in check and see what we can do to get more excitement built in our communities and with the younger generations we might see less opposition in the shooting sports.  I also feel that in order to do this we need to get the older shooters more involved with the younger ones.  Once again I may have put a bee in someones bonnet, so be it.

[mikek]

Mr chunter,  I am trying to get into highpower silhouette and happen to have a top notch unlimited rifle built by Mr Mike Bryant for I do stock work and have the fortunes of bartering at times.  BUT.. even though I have this rifle ... I stink.  I feel nomad and I believe jiminnj said it straight... egos and lack of good facilities are killing shooting sports.  I believe Mr David Tubb took a bone stock ADL and won both hunter and unlimited at one shoot so it surely wasn't the gun on his part.  I also shoot bench rest and I know many people who talk the talk of "I can shoot 1/4 MOA all day long"  but you invite them out to a shoot and low and behold they always refuse for they don't want to prove they can't walk the walk.  I too feel most people want to win without the work/practice part.  I also believe younger generations are not getting involved for that very reason... they want instant gratification that schools and parents now shove down their throats. Fortunately I was raised by my father who basically taught me if you want to be a winner get out there and train and when you are sick of traning train some more.  I see the equipment race in all sports and the funny thing is most of the legends/top guys us some very basic equipment.  Practice and knowing your gun makes someone a winner not the "Super polished graphite fetzer valve".  Have a good one,  Kav

[K2]

You could flip the David Tubb example on its head and say if a bone stock gun is good enough for Mr. Tubb then it should be good enough for all.  This would take the equipment out of the equation altogether.   That being said I would not try force anyone into a one size fits all mold, because it doesn't work.  

On the youth, I believe you have fallen into the media trap of believing none are willing to work hard to achieve a goal and in my experience that is too broad a brush.  The majority are good kids and will do what is required.  You will not get youth into the shooting sports without their parents for a couple of reasons, one they can't buy the equipment without the parents and most cannot get to a range or afford it once they are there without mom or dads help.  To get youth participation you need family participation.  There are exceptions but not many.  

Bottom line: diverse groups can share the targets, range and expenses if you let them.  Those who want to shoot in a very limited equipment game and those who want to shoot in a very equipment driven game should be able to get along and let each do their thing.  Trying to force one group into the other will only result in less participation.  

Mr chunter,  I am trying to get into highpower silhouette and happen to have a top notch unlimited rifle built by Mr Mike Bryant for I do stock work and have the fortunes of bartering at times.  BUT.. even though I have this rifle ... I stink.  I feel nomad and I believe jiminnj said it straight... egos and lack of good facilities are killing shooting sports.  I believe Mr David Tubb took a bone stock ADL and won both hunter and unlimited at one shoot so it surely wasn't the gun on his part.  I also shoot bench rest and I know many people who talk the talk of "I can shoot 1/4 MOA all day long"  but you invite them out to a shoot and low and behold they always refuse for they don't want to prove they can't walk the walk.  I too feel most people want to win without the work/practice part.  I also believe younger generations are not getting involved for that very reason... they want instant gratification that schools and parents now shove down their throats. Fortunately I was raised by my father who basically taught me if you want to be a winner get out there and train and when you are sick of traning train some more.  I see the equipment race in all sports and the funny thing is most of the legends/top guys us some very basic equipment.  Practice and knowing your gun makes someone a winner not the "Super polished graphite fetzer valve".  Have a good one,  Kav

[mikek]

You could flip the David Tubb example on its head and say if a bone stock gun is good enough for Mr. Tubb then it should be good enough for all.  This would take the equipment out of the equation altogether.   That being said I would not try force anyone into a one size fits all mold, because it doesn't work.  

On the youth, I believe you have fallen into the media trap of believing none are willing to work hard to achieve a goal and in my experience that is too broad a brush.  The majority are good kids and will do what is required.  You will not get youth into the shooting sports without their parents for a couple of reasons, one they can't buy the equipment without the parents and most cannot get to a range or afford it once they are there without mom or dads help.  To get youth participation you need family participation.  There are exceptions but not many.  

Bottom line: diverse groups can share the targets, range and expenses if you let them.  Those who want to shoot in a very limited equipment game and those who want to shoot in a very equipment driven game should be able to get along and let each do their thing.  Trying to force one group into the other will only result in less participation.  

quote]

Mr akihmsa, I think we agree on the equipment issue?  I feel buy all you can buy if you can afford it but what I am saying is,  it's not the equipment that makes a winner (to a degree of course).  

As for the youth of America... I currently attend a university and I will promise you,  at least at UNT most students want high grades for little to no work and bitch when they don't get them.  Cheating is common and completely accepted by the students and laugh at me when I remind them they are bound to an honor code of the university.  I agree there are guys and girls that work there butts off to acheive but I am around thousands everyday and I rarely see people who strive to acheive.  I too agree it takes the parents to get them out there and I have no idea why more adults don't try to get children more active in this game (maybe they do I just have never seen it).  One group,  I believe Hawks Ridge Shooting club, gives a scholarship to young shooters who finish top ranks and I commend them highly for this for it helps the parents and encourages/helps young adults to get their butts in college.  Have a good one,  Kav

[dwl]

You're all right!  There wil always be people playing to the rules.  There will always be a need for entry-level shooting.  I must say that CHunter has done a good job creating a shooting opportunity for new shooters.  

He set up a shoot-wha-cha-brung 10 week league and we did...shoot what we had.  There were 10-22s, old bolt action 22s, a Remington 597.  I shot my Old Man's Model 52 with a Unertl scope!  We had a great time.  Some people dropped out and some kept coming.  I went to see the Wasatch Shoot and now I've got a CZ Silhouette on order ('cause the 52 is too heavy and my little bolt 22 too light).

As to the future, I think I'm seeing the future.  The local range last year held a few shotgun fun shoots and turkey shoots and a couple of trap leagues.  Some were well attended and some were not.  This year the shoots are off to a roaring start.  People became acustomed to the shoots being there and the prizes don't hurt either.  The good news is they are bringing friends.

On the rilfe side we're just getting started, but hey, next year could be a lot better.  One thing we are doing is getting shooters to cross disiplines.  22 hand gun bullseye shooters are shooting 22 rifle silhouette with us.  I just found out that there is a 22 bench rest group.  I could shoot the 52 there.  One of the YHEC boys shot one evening with us.  Next year he'll be 18 and too old for YHEC.  We could recruit him.  Next we're organizing with the other disciplines to form a larger formal club inorder to support each other, bring in sanctioned matches and encourage crossing over.  I came out of the shotgun closet and now admit publicly to shooting 22s.

The down side of the future can be found in California.  Developement and pressure from non-shooters closed almost all the ranges I knew of in Southern CA.  People built homes next to and in back of shooting ranges and then complained to local authorities about the danger!  Some even resorted to bringing shell cases they claimed landed on their property (re Long Beach Pistol Range)!  No due process.  City and county officials closed publicly owned ranges and judges issued restraining orders against privately owned ranges for noise pollution, lead pollution and danger to the public.

The future of shooting may be with the rural and semi-rural communities, or for those willing to drive the distance.  Urbanites don't understand, and don't want to understand shooting unless it is in movies or Nintendo.  We've had no trouble attracting young rural and semi-rural kids to a busy and varied program.  Of course their parents ARE supportive and, in this case, so is the state.

[chunter]

Amen DWL,  thanks for the support.  See you next Thursday

[K2]

You guys are on the right track, being inclusive instead of exclusive!  Families, common equipment, being helpful, and keeping the costs down are all ways toward growth.  Look for a new silhouette association soon on the horizon, let us know what you are looking for in a "basic" gun category for both .22rf and Center fire and don't be all that surprised if you end up with 85%+ of what you are looking for.  No way to please everyone 100% but reasonable folks understand that 85% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing ;~)  

The shooting sports is getting ready for a big comeback.  

You're all right!  There wil always be people playing to the rules.  There will always be a need for entry-level shooting.  I must say that CHunter has done a good job creating a shooting opportunity for new shooters.  

He set up a shoot-wha-cha-brung 10 week league and we did...shoot what we had.  There were 10-22s, old bolt action 22s, a Remington 597.  I shot my Old Man's Model 52 with a Unertl scope!  We had a great time.  Some people dropped out and some kept coming.  I went to see the Wasatch Shoot and now I've got a CZ Silhouette on order ('cause the 52 is too heavy and my little bolt 22 too light).

As to the future, I think I'm seeing the future.  The local range last year held a few shotgun fun shoots and turkey shoots and a couple of trap leagues.  Some were well attended and some were not.  This year the shoots are off to a roaring start.  People became acustomed to the shoots being there and the prizes don't hurt either.  The good news is they are bringing friends.

On the rilfe side we're just getting started, but hey, next year could be a lot better.  One thing we are doing is getting shooters to cross disiplines.  22 hand gun bullseye shooters are shooting 22 rifle silhouette with us.  I just found out that there is a 22 bench rest group.  I could shoot the 52 there.  One of the YHEC boys shot one evening with us.  Next year he'll be 18 and too old for YHEC.  We could recruit him.  Next we're organizing with the other disciplines to form a larger formal club inorder to support each other, bring in sanctioned matches and encourage crossing over.  I came out of the shotgun closet and now admit publicly to shooting 22s.

The down side of the future can be found in California.  Developement and pressure from non-shooters closed almost all the ranges I knew of in Southern CA.  People built homes next to and in back of shooting ranges and then complained to local authorities about the danger!  Some even resorted to bringing shell cases they claimed landed on their property (re Long Beach Pistol Range)!  No due process.  City and county officials closed publicly owned ranges and judges issued restraining orders against privately owned ranges for noise pollution, lead pollution and danger to the public.

The future of shooting may be with the rural and semi-rural communities, or for those willing to drive the distance.  Urbanites don't understand, and don't want to understand shooting unless it is in movies or Nintendo.  We've had no trouble attracting young rural and semi-rural kids to a busy and varied program.  Of course their parents ARE supportive and, in this case, so is the state.

[dwl]

Step two of the future of shooting will be held 15 April.  There will be a meeting of the different shooting groups at the Hunter Education Center.  The following groups were invited to discuss forming an official club: benchrest centerfire, benchrest rimfire (two different group?), bulls eye pistol shooters, rimfire silhouete and shotgunners.  The action pistol shooters and the archers organized years ago.

There are multiple purposes for this.  While the Hunter Ed Center managemers have done wonders to promote shooting here, there are only two of them.  The rest of the staff is volunteer.  The different shooting groups will be encouraged to organize their own events and provide their own support staff.  The Hunter Ed management will still be there and supportive but this will lighten their load.

Second is to bring in sanctioned matches for the different shooting groups.  This one I am ignorant of.  Any advice on how to do it and who to contact would be appreciated.

The last and not least issue/benefit is the money.  Currently improvements to the range are done under state control since the Hunter Ed Center is state property.  However, an organized club can collect money, buy equipment and donate it to the Hunter Ed Center.  While the state will miss the cash they won't refuse the donated equipment.  For example, the trap shooters want a new trap machine.  Money given to the state will go into state accounts and the trap machine request will go on a long list of budget priorities somewhere below refurbishing  highway maintenance and refurbishing the the Govenors office.  This way the Proposed Gun Club donates it to the Hunter Ed Center and gets to use it.  

Wish us luck.

[nomad]

For silhouette sanctioning, just call the NRA and follow the options to the silhouette section of the competition division. Ask for Greg Conner. He'll send you what you need in order to apply.
If you want an example of a club program -- which you'll need to submit along with your application -- advise me here and I'll post one that we use. (All the silhouette programs we use are similar, all we do is change the descriptive wording from highpower to smallbore to airgun, etc.)

It will be interesting to see how you progress.

In my experience, what you're proposing is like trying to mix oil and water.

Aside from the fact that sanctioned SB silhouette is a demanding game --which limits the participation and automatically makes you a minority voice in any club decisions (AKIHMSA's 'big targets, cheap guns, easy scores, heavy attendance' program doesn't have national standing yet!) -- you're trying to bring very widely divergent personalities together.

Shotgun competitors are often 'social shooters'. Around here, every club that we see with a shotgun facility soon winds up diverting most of the funds to the trap/skeet programs. (Shotgun tends to attract the 'country-club' shooting set and they always seem to usurp the political side of club operations very quickly. Once that occurs, watch what happens to the 'balanced spending' of the club treasury...)

And benchrest is a 'buy-the-match' game -- BIG time. (If you complain about trying to fund an 'equipment race' in silhouette rifles, try competing against stool-shooters who figure that buying a dozen match-grade barrels a year is just one of the MANY ancillary costs of playing.)

While this may be the 'future of shooting' in your area (I assume that you don't mean that you control the future of shooting nationwide), I'll be interested in seeing how well it works. And even more interested in seeing if it's still working a year or two from now.

I do wish you luck -- I hope that anyone promoting shooting participation succeeds -- but it's hard to paddle upstream...and I think you're putting your canoe into the wrong end of the quick-water!

Before you start labelling this as 'defeatist', think about these points:

I've been a club board member and a club officer.
I am a match director.
I do promote shooting and youth involvement at every opportunity.
But I'm also a realist.
IOW, 'Been there, done that, got the T-shirt!' ;-)

Keep us informed. You might figure out something that all the rest of us have missed!

[K2]

For Silhouette contact their headquarters and see if they have a member in your area that might be willing to run a sanctioned match.  For the IHMSA post a note on their chat board.  Go to www.ihmsa.org and follow the links.  

The new silhouette association I am working on won't be running most likely until 2005, lots of ground work to be done.  Bringing rifle and pistol together under one umbrella will be a new idea.  To be sucessful it needs to be flexible so that dual sanctioned matches are fairly easy to conduct.  

Convincing the various groups to work together should be easier as many are waking up to the idea that what is good for one is generally good for all in terms of keeping ranges open and sharing costs which lowers costs on the total user groups.   I have been seeing less of my sport is better than yours for a few years and that is a good thing.  

Step two of the future of shooting will be held 15 April.  There will be a meeting of the different shooting groups at the Hunter Education Center.  The following groups were invited to discuss forming an official club: benchrest centerfire, benchrest rimfire (two different group?), bulls eye pistol shooters, rimfire silhouete and shotgunners.  The action pistol shooters and the archers organized years ago.

There are multiple purposes for this.  While the Hunter Ed Center managemers have done wonders to promote shooting here, there are only two of them.  The rest of the staff is volunteer.  The different shooting groups will be encouraged to organize their own events and provide their own support staff.  The Hunter Ed management will still be there and supportive but this will lighten their load.

Second is to bring in sanctioned matches for the different shooting groups.  This one I am ignorant of.  Any advice on how to do it and who to contact would be appreciated.

The last and not least issue/benefit is the money.  Currently improvements to the range are done under state control since the Hunter Ed Center is state property.  However, an organized club can collect money, buy equipment and donate it to the Hunter Ed Center.  While the state will miss the cash they won't refuse the donated equipment.  For example, the trap shooters want a new trap machine.  Money given to the state will go into state accounts and the trap machine request will go on a long list of budget priorities somewhere below refurbishing  highway maintenance and refurbishing the the Govenors office.  This way the Proposed Gun Club donates it to the Hunter Ed Center and gets to use it.  

Wish us luck.

[cslcAl]

Nomad, I agree with you again. In my 20 plus years in this game I have seen a lot of changes some good some bad. You go with the flow and make the best of it. I happen to think this sport is in as good of shape as it has ever been. Our club here in central Pa. has no trouble getting shooters to attend our matches. We average about 45 for SB rifle and about 55 for HP rifle. WE had a Cowboy Lever Action match last month after the HP and had 37 shooters show up. We didn't finish till 6:45pm. The turnout was convincing enough that our mother club is buying us two more sets of HP animals.
   We try our best to make sure everyone goes home satisfied with our matches. We are getting a lot of juniors at our SB matches; and we make sure they all get some kind of award. They are the ones and the new shooters who we try our best to satisfy. The ELITE shooters as I have heard them called could care less about awards. They just want a place to shoot to advance their game for the big matches.
    I also wouldn't condem anyone who can figure out some shooting game to attract people to participate in. But I don't see where NRA sanctioned silhouette is in that much need of help. If a club has a half decent range and runs a good match people will come.
    I have been reluctant to reply to this thread; but I have spent too many years promoting this sport to stand by and see it put down.
Al Foust

[nomad]

Al,
Did I mention that I'm originally from PA and used to fly for Piper/Lock Haven?
Down here they tell me I'm a REAL dam' Yankee -- one that came and didn't go back!
Now that the secret's out, you know why I'm so easy to get along with... :-D

[chunter]

Well it looks like this was a good thread that got shooters talking.  I would say this has the most replys and views that I have seen in this forum so far.  Sorry didn't mean to stir up the water, but it is good to hear some ideas and different views.

Chunter

[K2]

Hi Nomad

You make some really valid points.  Having seen first hand the transfer of rifle and pistol shooters funds to subsidize the shotgun side of range operations twice I know this can be a serious problem.  However for shooting to survive all the shooters need to try to work together.  At the club level if a group starts to use one set of shooters funds to subsidize "their" game the rest need to immediately call them to task and be prepared to act to stop such non sense.  All Clubs need good accounting to identify such crap (avoid the one pot for revenue idea) and take action fast.  Each sport should be able to stand on its own two feet, if it can't then it is wanting to drive a cadillac while only making achevy payment.  

For Silhouette both the NRA and the IHMSA do a good job attracting and tailoring their games for the serious shooter and there certainly is nothing wrong with that.  My positive experience in creating a less expensive game proved the merit in the idea and seeing the huge success of SASS also tells me that there is growth potential in a less serious shooting sport.   If our new silhouette game is sucessful it will benefit other shooting sports as well.  People will get accustomed to shooting in a sanctioned game and will be more receptive to that idea.  Most sports have more pass thru members than they do lifelong followers.  Bill Robinson is a great example, he rose to the top of Unlimited standing in the IHMSA and after about a decade began looking for something new and now is a devoted rifle silhouetter (and most likely will be a top shooter there).  I strongly urge all shooters to be a NRA member regardless of the sport they choose and many IHMSA members are also NRA members even though many do not shoot NRA sanctioned matches.  Some shoot both.  

Bottom line is simple: Silhouette is fun and it has a lot of room for growth.  I am not now nor have I ever been against the NRA or the IHMSA versions of the silhouette games.  I do absolutely believe they are missing a lot of potential members, and I believe a slightly different game will attract many people that the current games simply won't reach.  I support any activity that will get more people shooting safely, ethically and improve their marksmanship skills.  All of us want folks to keep their muzzles pointed in a safe direction, fingers off the triggers until the sights are on the identified target and keep there guns unloaded unless actually in use.  

You have my word that the minute someone wants to go in the direction of either the NRA or IHMSA competitons that I will be the first to give them contact info.  I hope that when you find a person that wants to shoot silhouette in a less expensive format with equipment that really isn't suited for your game you send them our way ;~)  Together we all will be better    

For silhouette sanctioning, just call the NRA and follow the options to the silhouette section of the competition division. Ask for Greg Conner. He'll send you what you need in order to apply.
If you want an example of a club program -- which you'll need to submit along with your application -- advise me here and I'll post one that we use. (All the silhouette programs we use are similar, all we do is change the descriptive wording from highpower to smallbore to airgun, etc.)

It will be interesting to see how you progress.

In my experience, what you're proposing is like trying to mix oil and water.

Aside from the fact that sanctioned SB silhouette is a demanding game --which limits the participation and automatically makes you a minority voice in any club decisions (AKIHMSA's 'big targets, cheap guns, easy scores, heavy attendance' program doesn't have national standing yet!) -- you're trying to bring very widely divergent personalities together.

Shotgun competitors are often 'social shooters'. Around here, every club that we see with a shotgun facility soon winds up diverting most of the funds to the trap/skeet programs. (Shotgun tends to attract the 'country-club' shooting set and they always seem to usurp the political side of club operations very quickly. Once that occurs, watch what happens to the 'balanced spending' of the club treasury...)

And benchrest is a 'buy-the-match' game -- BIG time. (If you complain about trying to fund an 'equipment race' in silhouette rifles, try competing against stool-shooters who figure that buying a dozen match-grade barrels a year is just one of the MANY ancillary costs of playing.)

While this may be the 'future of shooting' in your area (I assume that you don't mean that you control the future of shooting nationwide), I'll be interested in seeing how well it works. And even more interested in seeing if it's still working a year or two from now.

I do wish you luck -- I hope that anyone promoting shooting participation succeeds -- but it's hard to paddle upstream...and I think you're putting your canoe into the wrong end of the quick-water!

Before you start labelling this as 'defeatist', think about these points:

I've been a club board member and a club officer.
I am a match director.
I do promote shooting and youth involvement at every opportunity.
But I'm also a realist.
IOW, 'Been there, done that, got the T-shirt!' ;-)

Keep us informed. You might figure out something that all the rest of us have missed!

[dwl]

Regarding all the advice I have received on this thread, Thank You.  I have read and thought considerably about your replies.  They are giving me a feel for the dynamics that effect most of the different shooting groups.

In the last week I've gone to the range each day to visit with all the different groups.  There are some shot gunners who are interested in organizing and who would like to attend a meeting to discuss a gun club.  The IPSC shooters have their own group and aren't interested in paying double dues or double insurance however they had an interesting idea.  

They suggested an umbrella group, "Friends of the Range" in which the different range groups could cooperate which each other and pool their funds on projects of mutual interest.  The Friends would be organized as a nonprofit and could promote the range in general as well as represent range users in local politics, i.e. defend ourselves with our members numbers.  Does anyone have any experience with this idea?  It's sounding really good.  

As a byproduct of talking with the different groups I found out that local SASS shooters would like to hold a match at the range and wondered if they could use the IPSC shooting bays.  Since the local IPSC club donated the bays to the range the answer was yes and the schedules were coordinated.

Another shooter from the next county west recalled that someone was trying to create a 600 yard rifle range about 35 miles west of here.  We're looking for information on it now.  Looks like we may have an answer to what about HP silhouette.  What do you think CHunter?  Just one more gun!

[nomad]

Some of this thread has been a little contentious. That said, I think that everyone on here hopes that you guys succeed in getting your range up and running full-out. (We just take exception to people wanting to effect changes in something that we've put a lot of effort into getting going on what we already think is the right track!)  

I'll just offer one observation:

When groups get together and 'pool' their resources, it's smart to make sure that everyone knows EXACTLY where the plan is going -- and get it written down! In my experience, these things always start well. Then, after a bit, someone starts whining. "Those guys are getting 30 seconds more range time every week than we are! Boo Hoo!" (Or something similar.) And the marriage goes on the rocks. (The problems usually start small and develop a life of their own that grows quickly out of control.)

If the pool is significantly unbalanced in terms of numbers of people with one or another specific interest(s) be very careful about structuring the bylaws or you're likely to find yourself in a Democracy. (The definition of a Democracy is: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.)

[chunter]

Interesting...

I have the rifle already for the HP silhouette.  I would think that this club should be an umbrella group.  Each division should have its own funds, and that if there is mutual interest in project then would could combine funds on the project.  
I would like to find out more information on the costs setting up this type of a club, or organization.  I think the real question that members are going to ask is "what is in it for me?" That is something that definitely needs to be addressed.

Any ideas?

[K2]

Playing together is a great idea, working out the details is a bit tougher and finding those who have "been there, done that" is invaluable.

When groups share targets such as steel ones, or even paper target holders, have a detailed plan as to how they will be maintained and create a fund to cover the cost of maintaining them.  Nothing worse that going out to set up a match and finding you are either short of targets or someone took them home to work on and didn't get them back in time!  Communication keeps the problems to a minimum but anytime you get more people involved you need to keep an eye open.   Some things don't go together such as a precision match held next to a machine gun match at the same time/day (hard to concentrate next to war zone sounds) .  Schedualing can be tough with the premium on the weekend time slots.

 For multi purpose ranges keep an open mind.  Benchrest benches that are attached to the ground or weight 500 lbs need to have enough room left over to shoot postition matches and off-hand matches.   Unless you have the room for separate ranges don't build things that will interfer with a match type.  

Best intentions without following thru makes for trouble.  If everyone puts things away the way they found them and keeps the range clean and in good repair it works out better for all.  Sweep up your brass and police your own mess.   Most of us have been to places where we spend a half hour cleaning up or repairing before we can even begin what we came for.

Having a well written plan is a very good idea.  Enjoy the 2004 season everyone     Find the most experience folks you can when laying the ground work.  

Interesting...

I have the rifle already for the HP silhouette.  I would think that this club should be an umbrella group.  Each division should have its own funds, and that if there is mutual interest in project then would could combine funds on the project.  
I would like to find out more information on the costs setting up this type of a club, or organization.  I think the real question that members are going to ask is "what is in it for me?" That is something that definitely needs to be addressed.

Any ideas?

[nomad]

Chunter,

You have a pm.