Author Topic: I've Seen The Light - I Recant!  (Read 750 times)

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Offline BamBams

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I've Seen The Light - I Recant!
« on: March 25, 2004, 04:20:11 PM »
Awhile back, I posted that I wasn't a believer in using flashlights during a gunfight at night.  Several of you took me to task on this, and I've gotta say, "You were right!"  I was guilty of severe ignorance on this subject.

I took the "Mastering the Darkness" course and now I'm sold on using a flashlight for target indentification at night.  What I was ignorant about were the advances that have been made in combat lights over the years.

The "Surefire" lights are very impressive indeed. Used correctly, along with tritium night sights, one becomes much more adept at handling encounters in the dark.

I ran across a Surefire 6Z on eBay for $50, so I went ahead and purchased it. It's been home for a few days now.  I also ordered the super high intensity lamp (runtime is only 20mins) but with 120 focused lumens, who would need more than that???

Of all the techniques I have been taught recently, I prefer the Wilson/Rogers technique, but I realize that is a personal choice.  For those who wish to "self-educate" on shooting in the dark.  Bill Wilson has a great video on this.  

Now that I "somewhat" know what I'm doing, I'm also going to order a Tac-Star 2000 WLS for my Mossberg 590, and reload some low muzzle flash rounds for my .45 ACP.

Here's a photo of my new, little friend:


I still think laser sights are for gun shop commandos though. *smiles*
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Offline jh45gun

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I've Seen The Light - I Recant!
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2004, 08:26:13 PM »
bambam, I got a lazer mounted on my 22 pistol not for security reasons but for fun they are a fun addition and the one I have is just a cheap one for 22/s but it works well for what it is intended for FUN!! Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline papajohn428

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I've Seen The Light - I Recant!
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2004, 01:28:11 PM »
I got a SureFire for Christmas last year. My honey told me she's rather see me temporarily blind a bad guy, then kick him in the nads and 'cuff him, than maybe have to shoot him, and get sued.  Sounds like a winning concept to me!

She may be blonde, but she does make a good point.   :grin:

PJ
If you can shoot home invaders, why can't you shoot Homeland Invaders?

Offline NYH1

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I've Seen The Light - I Recant!
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2004, 06:17:14 PM »
The problem I have with using a little is that you instantly give up your position. If theres more then one person involved and you only see one of them and not the other/others, you could be in even more trouble. I guess if your trained when to use it and when not to, you'd be ok under the right circumstances.

I wouldn't use one in my house. I leave certain lights on in the house so I can still see, but theres still enough shadows for me not be seen either. If someone comes in my house, I'm not interested in blinding them. I want to put an end to the situation ASAP, and that's gonna be with my Remington 870 pump shot gun.

I don't carry a light of any kind when I carry my pistol out in public so one just wouldn't be avaible. :toast:
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline BamBams

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I've Seen The Light - I Recant!
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2004, 05:57:07 AM »
I hear you loud and clear.  It's all about target identification as far as I am concerned.  I am not out to try and blind the perpetrator either.  I think it's a darn good idea to position night lights around the house also!...but.....

I once saw a training video in which the class was asked if they would automatically return fire if fired upon first.  The majority said "yes."  Then they had some guy downrange simulate firing at them from the dark.  When the guy was later illuminated, it was revealed that he had a small child as a hostage in front of him while he was firing at the other victims.

Whatever means are used to ID a target -- that is fine, but NOT indentifing a target prior to shooting is simply not an option for me.  You MUST know what you are shooting at.  I'd rather take a hit myself, than accidently kill a loved one.

In a family home, you can never be 100% certain of the location of all family members during a crisis, AND if you add multiple perpetrators into the mix, then you've really gotta be sharp in the dark.  You may wind up having to "clear" your own home before the police arrive and round up your loved ones at the same time.  

Then there is the legal aspect to all this.  IF you shoot an intruder in the dark, you are "still" going to be asked what you "saw" when you get questioned.  Not only that, but "how" you saw it.  Fortunately for us, dead criminals can't speak on their own behalf, but I'd still like have the means available to watch him breath his last breath.

The ARE some pretty good tactics out there for shooting in the dark while using a good flashlight.  The "Harris" hold, the "Surefire/Rogers" hold and the "Chapman" hold come to mind right now.  But the idea is to illuminate and move (behind cover if possible) as quickly as you are able.  The light is never left on for more than a split second, and you are never going to be where the light beam "was" in time for the perp to shoot at it.  

Having the "correct" type flashlight also becomes important.  The main ingredient is that the light must have a "momentary ON" switch so that it does not accidently stay on and give away your position.  

Yeah, it's alot more to learn and to practice, BUT I am convinced that acquiring the skills are very worthwhile should the day ever come when you may need them.

I am one who used to be a nay sayer on the whole tactical lighting concept, but after receiving further training and knowledge, I can no longer take that position.  I've now got a "Tac-Star 2000" system on the end of my Mossberg 590 12 gauge shotgun, and I feel better knowing that it's there if the need should ever arise.  I've also installed night sights on my defense pistol and my shotgun's front bead as well.  The more prepared I am, the better I sleep at night.
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Offline Dali Llama

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I've Seen The Light - I Recant!
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2004, 08:12:20 AM »
Quote from: jh45gun
bambam, I got a lazer mounted on my 22 pistol not for security reasons but for fun they are a fun addition and the one I have is just a cheap one for 22/s but it works well for what it is intended for FUN!! Jim
Dali Llama say he certainly hope jh45gun have larger calibre weapon for "security reasons."  Dali curious, however, what .22 calibre pistol and what brand/type laser sight do jh45gun possess?
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk