Author Topic: 30-06 or 308? (Read 1816 times)

Lurch · « **on:** May 20, 2004, 01:45:12 PM »

I'm getting ready to order my first handi rifle and can't decide between 30-06 and .308. Later I will order .223 and possibly a 45-70, but I need the pro's and con's between the .30 calibers.

Bis · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2004, 02:15:26 PM »

I sure hope you get some good relys, I am also considering a 308, from what I have read, it seems more accurate. I don't know. The 2 rounds you mentioned are probably a little over kill for the deer around here.

VarmintController · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2004, 03:04:51 PM »

well i got to say "30-06 Good For All Game From Moose to squirrel" and i sure love mine, i had and sold off 2 NEF 308s. dont get me wrong they where nice guns, but i love my NEF Ultra in 30-06, well it is the older 30-06 with the camo lam stocks on it. and it has never failed me. be it a coyote that crossed my path at 150yrds, or my biggest buck after 20 years of hunting, or a watermellon at the range, It Has Always Worked, and Worked Very Well :grin:

:grin:

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2004, 03:12:33 PM »

I just sold the '06 I had but kept my .308. The difference between the two is not that great, but for hand loads the .308 uses less powder for almost the same performance as the .30-06. The .308 has taken its share of moose up here, and even done duty in bear defense situations with the big bears (though it is pretty iffy for that).

However, I did really like my NEF .30-06. It brought home its share of deer (though the .308 has matched it). The rifle always worked.

Hope this helps some. Let us know your decision!

-WH-

Tcallbuilder · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2004, 03:14:11 PM »

Hey Lurch welcome aboard!
Well the difference between the .308 and 30-06 is marginal they are very exceptional deer rounds and are capable of taking any game in north America
I was faced with the same decision last year and opted fro the 30-06
mostly because of the wider selection of factory ammo available in this area. and am set-up to handload the 06.

as for accuracy my handi will shoot inside an inch @ 100yards if i do my part.....the barrel is a bit heat sensitive though and i have to really let it cool between shots.

I dont think you could go wrong with either one.

TCB

Bis · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2004, 04:02:34 PM »

So what you guys are saying is that it is a coin toss as to 30-06 vs. 308. What about recoil, is there much difference there?

JPH45 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2004, 04:06:28 PM »

It would be difficult to go wrong with either one. As Winter Hawk pointed out, if you are reloading, the 308 is not quite as hungry as it's older brother. There are plenty of surplus ammo out there in both chamberings, but the 308 is very likely far more plentiful and a bit less expensive. If you plan on going after really heavy game like trophy calss elk, moose, bear the 30-06 does handle the hevier bullets of 200-220 grains much better than the 308. For deer hunting ther is not enough difference to matter. Choose the one that suits your fance and go bring home the bacon, er, I mean the venison :-D

Bis · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2004, 04:25:30 PM »

Thanks JPH45. Most of our deer are on the small side and I think my 243 will handle them but we do have some large pigs. I have a 45/70 but would like to reach out a bit farther. At longe range is there much difference ( 200-300 yards) ? Also is there much difference in recoil, I am getting soft in my old age :-)

JPH45 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2004, 05:30:34 PM »

It has been a long time since I fired a 308 anything, but I don't remember any that I fired being in one way or another any worse or lighter than the 30-06. If you are shootin' a 45-70, you should have no trouble with the 308's recoil.

As to range, again there is no practical difference. A .30 cal bullet with a BC of say .37 is going to have the exact same trajectory and terminal ballistics no matter if it is launched from a 308, a 30-06 or even a 300 Win Mag so long as the starting muzzle velocity is concerned.

There are a number of handloaders who thrive on taking the 30-06 into light magnum territory, 150 grain bullets at 3000-3100 fps, and Hornady even makes a factory load called "Light Magnum" to extend the velocity performance of the 30-06. I know of no deer that could tell you the difference. the 308 or 30-06 are both capable killers at 300 yards, though i wuld consider that the maximum hunting range for either. (I'm gonna get chewed up on that one :-D )

mitchell · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2004, 05:33:39 PM »

the 308 will be a little bit softer on the shoulder (not much) be noth guns aren't that bad to shoot. if you reload i would go with the 308 just caz its always been an accurate round . if not then 30-06 hands down! just because of all the factory loads and if you ever start reloading its still a fun round. both are good for 1000yards. why not try flipping a coin?

marv · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2004, 05:54:13 PM »

I promised my self back 51 if i get out the army I never fire another
-06, And I have not, But I like 308 I have one win Mod 88, Fired a bunch times. kill deer with it kind of retired Ol' bess. MHO marv.

handirifle · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2004, 06:42:29 PM »

While I might agree with JPH as far as "hunting" goes since most of us are not capable beyond that range, but the '06 is. It was a sniper round for many years and is capable of killing a deer cleanly out to 1000yds. The weakest part of the equation is the guy pulling the trigger.

I firmly believe at 1000yds the bullet would still pass through the deer completly. If hit in the lungs the deer would die. The bullet might not expand (depends on the bullet I guess) but a 30 cal hole in both lungs will make ANYTHING bleed to death.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2004, 07:27:28 PM »

Quote from: Lurch

I'm getting ready to order my first handi rifle and can't decide between 30-06 and .308. Later I will order .223 and possibly a 45-70, but I need the pro's and con's between the .30 calibers.

In my experience and those of most authorities on the matter, the 7.62 Nato or 308 Winchester is a superior round for accuracy. The '06 has an advantage in the ability to handle heavier bullets, but if accuracy is your goal, the 308 has the edge.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp

mitchell · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2004, 04:58:17 AM »

handirifle i agree with you being a bow hunter i know that if you put a whole in it its gona die. however most people expect a rifle to drop deer where they stand , and when your just putting a whole in some thing that just don't happen. i would say that 7 out of 10 times if your bow hunting your gona have to track, same thing with shooting deer at long range . well handirifle here it comes i hope our butts are ready caz here it comes. :shock:

scruffy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:08:20 AM »

For a dedicated bench rifle I'd get the 308. Inhearently more accurate, short action in a bolt action, and easier on the shoulder.

For a dedicated hunting rifle I'd get the 30-06. Wider selection of ammunition, more availability of ammunition out in the sticks, heavier bullets available, more than accurate enough for a hunting rifle, etc.

Just mho. :wink: But I shoot a .270 :lol:

later,
scruffy

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:57:39 AM »

Lurch:

Here's my spin on the choice between the two...I went with the Survivor in 308 and then switched it over to the Cinamon Laminated stock to get a heavy barreled 308 and loose the plastic stock..the extra storage wasn't why I bought it anyway...does it shoot...yea it is capable of great accuracy with a minimum amount of hassel.Mine doesn't like the cheap imported military stuff...but a-lot of them that are out there from what I've read here,don't either,but load it up with some quality factory match ammo and it really shines...I did have a 30-06 ultra to shoot for a-while and tried various factory loads and handloads with it for a friend...but I didn't really get the accuracy out of it...that's the way of our little handi's...you can have 2 or the same..and both have their preferences on ammo...I can say that it didn't weigh as much as my 308 and it did kick a little harder..but when using 180 grain bullets and up they all do that. Both are good calibers and both will extend your reach over the 45-70,and both will take any game you hunt in the lower 48 quite easily with the right load. In your area you might have access to only one brand of ammo or 1 caliber..so if your not planning on reloading for it..I guess you should go with what you can get...if ammo selection isn't a problem...and your wanting some high end match ammo..then go with the 308...there's plenty of that around....Oh...bye the way...Hornady makes the Light Magnum ammo for the 308 too if that's an interest...it does take it up a few notches as well...The one thing about the 30-06 over the 308 is the availability of the heavier factory bullet loadings of 180 grain and above..my heavy factory load for the 308 is the Norma 180 Gr. ORYX and it's a very good accurate round with a controlled expansion bullet for some of the larger critters should I go for them.

Either way both are good choices...both will get the job done...both can be very accurate if you take the time to find the right load...you just have to figger out what your gonna do with it and what kind of ammo your gonna use...and go from there.

Good Luck

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2004, 06:49:33 AM »

Not to hijack this thread, but is the hornady light magnum safe to shoot in lever or single shot non-bolt action rifles? I see this on Midway's site, "For use in bolt action rifles only." I have a Model 81 BLR in .308 Win and would like to know what you think. Also wondering if it is safe for a 25-06 rem Ultra, although I haven't got a recommendation for that factory load. thanks

scruffy · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2004, 07:05:17 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Not to hijack this thread, but is the hornady light magnum safe to shoot in lever or single shot non-bolt action rifles? I see this on Midway's site, "For use in bolt action rifles only." I have a Model 81 BLR in .308 Win and would like to know what you think. Also wondering if it is safe for a 25-06 rem Ultra, although I haven't got a recommendation for that factory load. thanks

I don't know. I've shot the 130 grain .270win hornaday light mags in my bolt weatherby and they kicked alot harder, had flat primers, brass flakes from the cases all over the bolt and chamber, and the outsides of the case necks were extremely chared. Every shell I shot ejected, none of them locked in the chamber, but they had all the other signs of being over pressured. I couldn't believe they were this hot, and meant to send the box back to horniday with a call and letter asking if they'd missloaded the rounds or if they're supposed to be that hot. But I just never have... I was hoping to run some through a friends savage 270 and see if he saw the same pressure signs, but he sold it before I could borrow it. I was/am thinking maybe a different rifle may not show the signs. Although I imagine a savage has a shorter throat than the natorious long throated weatherby's so it might show more high pressure signs. Who knows....

But they're definitely hot loads! Too hot for my bolt rifle so I don't shoot them, still have most of the box (think I only shot 3 for scope sight in, after I saw the first fired case I didn't bother taking off the scope adjusting knobs...). I'd never shoot one in a handi, but that's just my brief experence with them.

later,
scruffy

Mac11700 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2004, 07:15:41 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Not to hijack this thread, but is the hornady light magnum safe to shoot in lever or single shot non-bolt action rifles? I see this on Midway's site, "For use in bolt action rifles only." I have a Model 81 BLR in .308 Win and would like to know what you think. Also wondering if it is safe for a 25-06 rem Ultra, although I haven't got a recommendation for that factory load. thanks

I just got off the telephone with Hornady...I talked with Doug in the ballistic lab..and he said they are fine in any fixed breech rifle...this includes the NEF's...he did state they shouldn't be used in any gas semi auto's...so yes they can be used in our Handi's...

you can check out all of their offerings here...http://www.hornady.com

Give them a call if you want to talk to the guys in the lab...just ask for ballistics when the operator comes on the line...

Good Luck

Mac

22KHornet · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2004, 10:44:43 AM »

I would stick with a 30-06 if it was me. My dad and I both have and old bolt action military 06 that my great grandfather sporterized long before I was around and I love to shoot mine as well as my Win model 95. As for the other question on will a lever gun take the light magnum I would say yes. MY handloads exceed the light magnum stuff and I have shot them in both my lever and the old bolt with no real signs of pressure. My only other thought is that I see post in here about cases sticking in the chamber. While I have not been here that long it seems that most of the time it is a 243 or some other short case but I have yet to see that post on 06 based case :?: I am sure I will hear about that one :grin:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2004, 11:38:06 AM »

The only cases I have ever had stick in my 308 was some very inexpensive imported NATO ball ammo...all of the others from fFederal,Winchester,Remington and Norma that I have shot has ejected fine...I will pick up some of the Light Magnum stuff and see how it does for it...I can get a couple boxes of the 150 grains for about $11.00 each...if my dealer still has them.

Mac

ScatterGunner · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2004, 12:58:03 PM »

get both !

the differences between the two cartridges can be significant or insignificant depending on what what you are ventilating.

the 30-06 has by far, and undesputably, the widest range of loads available, of almost any cartridge. the 308 uses a subset of these loads. if your sole purpose is to hunt game larger than squirrel in north america, it will not matter which cartridge you pick.

if you want to shoot high caliber accuracy games, use the 308, it has far superior internal ballistics over the 30-06. better, and repeatable interior ballistics translates into smaller groups on the paper.

if you are into efficiency, the 308 is a smaller cartridge that will deliver 30-06 velocities with less powder, however you will limited to a smaller range of bullet weights.

if you are a dyed-in-the-wool cast bullet shooter, get the 30-06. you have more choices for bullet weight, style, powders, etc.

both cartridges were military rounds that found their way into sporting arms. there is 101 years of history for the 30-06 and 4 or so decades for the .308. both are really fine rounds.

if you asked me what would i buy, i would get the 30-06. there is nothing you can't do with the 30-06 that you can do with the 308 !!!

sg

JPH45 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2004, 01:28:51 PM »

What a great thread! :-D

Handirifle, though he is deceased now, I had a 2nd cousin who was on Baton. Story in the family is that prior to surrendering to the Japanese, they were feeding themselves using 03-A3's and shooting water buffalo at ranges of 500 to 1000 yards. The animal would rarely die quickley, which they wanted, if the animal dropped immediately, Japs may have took notice of the event with the usual ensueing search for the perpatrators......They would go down in the fields/pattis at night and butcher what they could carry away. Donnie survived the march and the camp. Dad says that for years after, whenever a plane would come over, Donnie would just go nuts, would even try to find cover from it. Death can be a welcome event I am sure..... (hope that didn't come off as some kind of "big stick" wasn't meant that way)

Mitchell from Ohio, age 17??? Is that you mitch?

Good to see ya :-D

Quickdtoo, I would have been amazed if Hornady had disqualified the BLR. Been a while since I examined one, but I remember that bolt having a rotory bolt face with locking lugs, not unlike that of the A-bolt in a carrier. I believe they have made that rifle in several magnum offerings including 7mm Rem. Mag and 300 Win. Mag. I am envious, I have wanted one of those for years, I find it superior in every way to the '95 and the equal and better of many a bolt gun out there.

kjeff50cal · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2004, 01:47:51 PM »

There is a way to have your cake and eat it.... Buy your Handi-Rifle in '06 and get a shell adapter that will convert it to .308. To convert it back use a shell extractor. The company that has the adapter is MCA Sports/ACE Bullet Co. ,2800 West 33 rd Road, Anchorage AK 98517-2201. He (Ace Dube, the owner) has an email address but I can not lay my hands on it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2004, 02:33:48 PM »

Quote from: JPH45

What a great thread! :-D
Quickdtoo, I would have been amazed if Hornady had disqualified the BLR. Been a while since I examined one, but I remember that bolt having a rotory bolt face with locking lugs, not unlike that of the A-bolt in a carrier. I believe they have made that rifle in several magnum offerings including 7mm Rem. Mag and 300 Win. Mag. I am envious, I have wanted one of those for years, I find it superior in every way to the '95 and the equal and better of many a bolt gun out there.

They haven't disqualified it yet, I sent em an email asking specifically, though. My 81 was made in Japan, so I wonder how stout it is. It's a good shooter, moa or less when I do everything right! I'd hate to ruin it or me with the light magnum loads. I've put a lot of deer and elk in the freezer with it since '83. Thanks for the reply, Tim

JPH45 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:03:38 PM »

There is a lot of prejudice out there about FN made Brownings. It is sad actually, think for a moment, you are responsible for the Browming name and product line.....are you going to simply choose the cheapest manufacturer you can find???

All of the 1885 Brownings were made in Japan. I had one that was built there in 1986, chambered in 45-70. It had immaculent fit and finish, and when I was working in a very large gun shop in the early 90's we sold lots of Brownings that were made by the Japanese.

I would stack the quality of the Japanese guns against the FN's anyday. The truth of the matter is, your Japanese built BLR probably has a higher degree of engineering and built in quality inspection than ANY FN made Browning. (I'm gonna take a world of $#@! for that) The guns made in Belgium were absolutely fine arms. They were also essentially handmade guns. that does not mean they are better, just that they are hand fitted. While this can add a pleasing slickness, and a high degree of fit and finish, I have yet to see a standard model FN Browning anything that is in anyway superior to the product made by the Japanese.

Think on this one a bit.....The same company that makes Brownings in Japan, is also the same company that makes the Japanese Weatherby products.

There is no need to think that your 81 BLR is in anyway inferior, made with less care or was made from inferior materials. The Japanese are world renowned for their steel quality and manufactuering process control methods. Your rifle was made in the heyday of their domination of the mass produced product line, and I doubt any finer example of an arm could represent the Browning Arms Co.

What is sad is that the very people who made your rifle cannot themselves own one, and if there is fault I hold Browning too, it is for dealing with a nation which forbids general firearms ownership by the common people.
If they lost any sales as a result of any percieved inferiority of their Japanese made arms, then perhaps there is Karma afterall.

MGMorden · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:33:22 PM »

.308 vs .30-06 is not worth too much trouble deciding. They are both so close in power and recoil that the difference in game hunting will be marginal at best (if you get down to the minute differences, .308 is supposed to be a tad more accurate, and .30-06 a tad more powerful). The short-action advantage of the .308 is nullified in the Handi due to the absense of a bolt.

If you want my opinion on what I would choose . . . it would be the .30-06 (I've got a Savage 110 that I like a lot. I'll be taking out my 6.5x55 M96 Sporter this season though

). This is simply for the fact that it's what my father and both grandfathers used. Back in the sticks (where I'm at), the .30-06 is regarded as THE deer rifle. .30-30 is good too, as is .270, but if you're serious around here, you're using the '06. It's just a more classic chambering than the .308 to me. On technical ability though, you won't go wrong with either.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:37:08 PM »

JPH45, I'm not really down on japanese built products, after all, they make some of the best optics in the world, but my ignorance on the matter is my failing. I just didn't know what to compare it to or how well it was made. What I do know is it's been a very fine firearm for me and has served me well. Thanks for the enlightenment. :grin: