Author Topic: Lubing Minnie balls  (Read 1447 times)

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Offline Marsh1

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Lubing Minnie balls
« on: June 22, 2004, 07:25:54 AM »
How do you musket shooters lube your .58 bullets. Can you use a sizing die and if so where does one get it?
I figured their must be a better way than lubing by hand on the line.
Another though; would pan lubing  work with the hollow base?

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2004, 08:28:57 AM »
Thats how I did it - but I would cut the minnie out of the pan, lube the base and then eject the minnie out the base of the cutter.

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2004, 11:44:43 AM »
I just hold them by the nose and dip them in melted lube up to the top groove. Then I set them on a piece of wax paper to cool.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline lostid

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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2004, 12:43:43 PM »
Where to get a sizing die?
Find an old deck of playing cards, role the Queen of Diamonds across the edge of a table in the palm of your hand. Once it has the curve, fit the card too your minne and tape it.
 With a little practice you can even "cone" one end of the card for easy insert. , Quick, easy and disposable.

  One eyed jacks might work,or the suicide king,But don't ever use the Queen of Hearts(knock on wood), dueces maybe!
i'm a realist. i've not seen it all, but man ,,I've Been Around the block once or twice

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2004, 02:50:59 PM »
lostid,

Don't you know that only the two of diamonds and the queen of spades will work with 58 caliber?
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline kevin

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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2004, 03:29:47 PM »
for evey ones information if you want a sizer die that can be used in your lyman or rcbs sizer go to www.lodgewood.com they carry evrything that  you will need for you .58 civilwar type weapons and good folks to.
                                Kevin
TOS violation warning given 4-2-05 Account deactivated 4-5-05. E-mail GB to get reinstated.

Offline lostid

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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2004, 02:12:00 PM »
crow feather,,oop's!
 I was thinkin 54! I'm savin the queen and the ace fer "trump"!
i'm a realist. i've not seen it all, but man ,,I've Been Around the block once or twice

Offline Guardian

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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2004, 07:56:35 AM »
The grooves on the sides of a .58 Minne' Ball are not for the grease.
They are scrapers that were meant to remove the fouling from the previous shot.. Some rifles such as the Confederate Witworth used no grooves around the bullet at all !.  Turn your Mine' balls upside down and fill the Hollow  base with your lubricating mixture and allow to dry.  I have noticed that the accuracy improves doing it this way. and it will leave Lubricant in your bore to load following shots more easily, It keeps the fouling soft.
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Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2004, 10:37:52 AM »
Quote from: Guardian
The grooves on the sides of a .58 Minne' Ball are not for the grease.
They are scrapers that were meant to remove the fouling from the previous shot.. Some rifles such as the Confederate Witworth used no grooves around the bullet at all !.  Turn your Mine' balls upside down and fill the Hollow  base with your lubricating mixture and allow to dry.  I have noticed that the accuracy improves doing it this way. and it will leave Lubricant in your bore to load following shots more easily, It keeps the fouling soft.

Well thanks Guardian, this is all news to me! Maybe you can explain why all the original Civil War paper rounds I have examined were lubed in the grooves only.
And for your info, Whitworth bullets are FLAT based. Where do you put the lube?
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline Guardian

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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2004, 09:11:17 AM »
I have never seen a paper cartridge with lube in the grooves, I have found a chunk of something that appears to be bee's wax in the base though. The purpose of the Minne' ball was ease and rapidity of loading!
Grease on the outside would make the ball more difficult to load after just a couple of shots thus defeating the purpose. The white stuff on the outside of the Minne' is oxygen corrosion of the lead. As for the Witworth...My point exactly, it had no grooves thus NO GREASE!
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Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2004, 12:13:56 PM »
Guardian, I see you are new here. Welcome to the site. There are many knowledgeble posters here, you can learn alot. I also see you have not done your homework on the Whitworth, or any Civil war guns, so here is a link to an interesting article about loading and shooting the gun with hexagonal and round bullets. Notice the abundant use of the word LUBE.
http://www.civilwarguns.com/9601b.html
The elswhere on this fine site you will find many references to how to lube a minie. These guys forgot more than you or I will ever know about these weapons. Here is the homepage.
http://www.civilwarguns.com
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline S.S.

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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2004, 04:48:37 PM »
Here comes my 2 cts. worth.
I have a pretty large collection of cartridges/bullets, some
predating the Revolutionary war, and here is a description of a few.
Actually I think you are both right!
In the early part of the American Civil War,
Some of the .577 / 58 caliber cartridges were
lubricated inside the paper!  But it was soon found that the
oils in the lubricant saturated the paper thus contaminating the
powder charge and rendering the cartridge useless.
I am sitting here looking at a .58 Cal.
Gardner paper cartridge from the Charlotte Arsenal. The writing
on the paper packaging says they were produced in 1863.
The Minne' type ball is totally exposed. A paper "cylinder"containing the
powder is glued into the hollow base with the opposing end folded over.
There is no sign of any lubricant.
Next is a .52 Cal. Sharps Cartridge, Manufacture date unknown.
This is a strange creature indeed! The paper tube is actually Tied onto
the last groove on the bullet with string. and the paper is covered with
some sort of fine cloth like linen or silk. Don't know what thats for!
 I am also looking at a .45 cal. British Witworth
"Tube Cartridge" It is a Hexagonal shaped heavy paper tube that looks
like it may have been re-usable.
Also no sign of Lube on the projectile Contained within.
The bullet is solid,Hexagonal with no grooves and no hollow base.
I would love to have a chance to fire one of these things, it is beautifully made.
Last but not least is an Enfield paper cartridge from Britain
Manufacture date is unknown. The Rounded conical bullet has no grease grooves either but the paper is stained dark brown with something  on the end  that contains the bullet? It may have been lubricated by something, I don't know.
There were also paper cartridges that were not meant to be tore open!
The paper was heavily saturated with nitrates and burned quite well on their own!
These were normally used in revolvers though.
Guardian:  ---- The bullet you described with the thing in the base probably predates the Civil War.  The Early Minne' bullets had a Plug of wood or iron or sometimes Fire Hardned Clay in the base. This was supposed to help the bullet expand into the rifling upon firing. It was found that the ball worked just  fine without it so they stopped using them. And on one point you are right,
the grooves in the Minne' ball are designed as scrapers, that is why they angle foreward with the sharp edge facing foreward.  Upon firing the bullet expands and fills the rifling  grooves, The scrapers remove the fouling from the previous shot as the ball moves up
the bore. But, I don't believe that having them lubed would stop them from accomplishing this. I personally put a dab of "Crisco" on the nose of the ball just before ramming down the bore, The inertia of the ball leaving the powder charge does the rest. This may not be the correct way,
buy it seems to work pretty well. I never could keep "debris" of one form or another from getting stuck to the balls when I pre-lubed them. Nothing like taking out a bullet for loading and the dang thing looks like it is covered with navel lint! I have seen several people do what you
said concerning filling the hollow base with lube and it does work, (I have even seen it recommended in a couple of books) But that puts a LOT of grease in the bore! I would hate to clean that rifle!
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2004, 05:29:27 PM »
Very well written
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2004, 02:01:48 AM »
S.Sumner, very good post. As for as the Government issue ammo, I have read some of the old ordnance manuals and they DID specify that the bullets be lubed with a beeswax-tallow mixture. It's very likely that this would not stand up to 140 years of handling and has rubbed or melted off your cartridges. The soldiers were issued a cartridge box with a metal plate full of holes to stand them in to keep them from rolling around or touching each other.
 As for the British bullets, these were usually undersize and loaded with a paper patch. The paper was soaked in lube made of beeswax and lard. This was the cause of the Sepoy Mutuny in India, when the Indian troops found out they were putting an unclean animal in their mouths when loading their weapons. Also the rumor got out that they were using tallow. As you know, cows are sacred to Hindus. And to a Muslem, ingesting pork is a sin, but even being shot by such a bullet defiles you so you are denied entrance to heaven, and the virgins, and all the other crap. So lubed bullets managed to p*ss off both Hindu and Muslem.
Just another :money:
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline S.S.

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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2004, 03:01:33 PM »
I have worked with firearms and ballistics for decades!
If it goes bang I have probably handled it at one
time or another. I like firearms as much for their historical
Value as I like shooting them! Some things are still a mystery
such as the cloth on the Sharps cartridge, but that's what makes
it fun.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Longcruise

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Lubing Minnie balls
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2004, 03:52:46 PM »
A word of caution!!!!!!

I used a Joker to make a lube die for my .50 cal and maxies and missed three shots at deer all within 15 yards :eek:

Next time I'll use an Ace :)

Offline S.S.

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« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2004, 08:14:15 AM »
Just make sure to stay away from the
"SUICIDE KING" !!!
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline S.S.

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« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2004, 08:21:37 AM »
Forgot something.

Here is something unusual that I recently read.
An article a guy sent in explained that
he used teflon tape as lube on his Minie balls.
"just wrap a couple of layers around the bullet"

Sounds just crazy enough work. But  I'm not gonna'
 do it though!
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2004, 09:15:49 AM »
The teflon tape sounds like a modern version of the paper patch. Don't think I'll try it either, though. Another gunwriter, I can't remember who, wrote that he used to wrap his Crisco lubed bullets in clear plastic kitchen wrap to keep them from getting dirty, and getting lube all over everything. He used a little twist tie at the nose, and pulled this off after the bullet was seated flush with the muzzle, kitchen wrap and all. The first plastic sabot, I guess.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline Longcruise

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« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2004, 11:13:09 AM »
I've uysed the teflon tape when a conical was a bit undersized.  Works just fine.  Put it over a lubed bullet.  A rough bore wouod probably tear it up in the loading but my TC .50 handled it very well