Field Report...243 85gr BTHP on Deer

[flintlock]

OK guys...here's the scoop...I've been using this bullet for the last few years...I've killed 11 deer with and a buddy has killed 6 more...14 dropped at the shot...(high shoulder shots)...the 3 that ran were center lung shots...none of these went over 75 yards....all left a good blood trail...
ranges varied from 30 yards to 225...on shoulder shots the bullet will penetrate both shoulder blades....on center lung shots it will exit....
I've used my .243 since 1980...the first 15 or so years I just used the 100gr Core Lokts....then started trying Hornadys, Winchesters, Federal
Premium and Classic (Nosler Partion, Sierra GameKing and Hi-Shock)
as well as the Nitrex Grand Slams....They all worked on deer, as I didn't loose any while field testing....I really liked the Core Lokts, Partitions, Grad Slams, Hornadys and Federal GameKing BTHP...the Winchester Power Points didn't exit on center lung shots...
Inside of 200 yards all of these work...But...I sight in 2 1/2 high at 100 and the 85gr at 3320fps is only 2 1/2 low at 300yards...When I hunt in eastern NC, we have peanut, bean, corn, wheat fields....Shots can run out to 300....That's where this bullet really come into play....I did some experimenting with other loads sighted in 2 1/2 high at 100...and then shot at 300...Most dropped much more than the ballistic tables say they should...to the tune of 8-10 inches....Try it sometime...
I know most hunters want closer shots...I do too...Nothing gives more of a thrill than bringing them in close...I just wanted to bring this load to everyones attention (Federal Premium 85gr Sierra BTHP)...This is not a groundhog load....its actually a long range deer/antelope round...

[Atomic Chicken]

flintlock,

Having just recently decided to build a "varmint/deer" special for backwoods fun, I chose the .243 Win. as the caliber to build my new rifle around.  You posted a few replies on that thread at the time I was still trying to decide what caliber to go with, and a lot of what you said was quite interesting and persuasive.  I came to this thread to check out what you were referring to concerning the 85 gr. HPBT cartridges.

My question for you is this:

How does this cartridge (.243 Win. with 85 Gr. HPBT) compare at even LONGER ranges when put up against something like the Sierra 107 Gr. HPBT round?  I ask because the Sierra 107 looks like it might be IDEAL for extra-long range shots - in fact it looks like it surpasses the .308 Win. ballistics at about 450-500 yards when comparing elevation loss, retained energy, and overall velocity.  I think most of this is due to the excellent ballistics of the bullet, but the 85 Gr. you are talking about is also a boat tail design, so it should probably do quite well also!  My concern would be the lower weight and correspondingly lower energy.  What are your thoughts?  I haven't yet compared the two using ballistics calculations yet - maybe I'll get around to it soon! :-)

Best wishes,
Bawko

[hillbill]

.243 is my fav round of all time for deer huntin but id have to admit, regardless of bullet weight it plum peters out past 300 yrds. put it on paper and see what happens!

[flintlock]

Atomic....I called Sierra today....they don't recommend the 107gr MatchKing for hunting deer....its a match bullet....very small hollow point...they thought it wouldn't open up esp at ranges over 200 yards...

Let me back up a minute...and give you some history on how I started using the 85gr BTHP  Sierra...and then I'll tell you what Sierra said about this bullet...

As I have stated...I bought a Ruger M-77 in 1980....I had planned to buy a Remington 700...in .270 (used to read a lot of Jack O'Conner)...The sporting goods store in VA was owned buy 2 brothers and a dad...its still in business...they recommended a .243...because I also wanted it to hunt groundhogs and turkeys, during the VA fall turkey season...they recommended a Ruger mainly because of the Ruger rings...I've never had them come loose...and can check every screw, without taking the scope off...its a good setup...

My family owns three farms in eastern NC....we raise corn, soybeans, peanuts, wheat and cotton...the land is flat...you can see several hundred yards...We kill 40-50 deer a year...invite other friends to hunt with us, and I've either killed deer, or seen deer killed with
22-250, .243, .260, .270, 7mm-08, .280, 30-06, 7mm Mag and 300 Mag...
(excluding muzzloaders, bows, shotguns, 30-30 etc) We hunt out of tower stands, climbing tree stands, ladder stands and even sometimes on the ground...I love to hunt fields...but usually hunt in the woods in the mornings...The closest I've ever killed a deer with my .243 was 3 steps away from the tree stand...longest was 225yards...Stands in the fields are usually setup 125 to 150 yards from where the deer usually come into the field...but during the rut a buck could step out almost anywhere...I'm telling you all this to let you know that I have hunted under a lot of different conditions....and have cleaned deer that have been killed by a variety of calibers...I love to do the autopsy, check out the damage done...

For about 15 years, I used Core Lokts....about eight years ago I started trying different bullets...I wanted to see for myself the differences in bullet design....the Core Lokts were working fine, but I knew I wasn't buying a new rifle and just wanted to experiment...What I want a bullet to do on a whitetail is this...exit on center lung shots...as they usually run a ways, so you have a good blood trail...and penetrate the shoulder blades on a high shoulder shot....I don't care if this bullet exits...as the deer will drop...the spine is located behind the shoulder blade...What most guys forget, is once a bullet exits a deer...its done killing...just wasted energy..

I shot at least 5 deer with each bullet....the harder bullets (Partitions, Grand Slam, Hornadys and Core Lokts) usually exited on shoulder shots...Always exited on center lung shots...the softer bullets...(Ballistic tips, Winchester Power Points, Federal 100 gr Premium and Classics) didn't usually exit on lung shots....but...The deer didn't go as far as the deer would with harder bullets...usually less than 30 yards....They all would drop a deer with a high lung shot...or a high shoulder shot...during this time I refrained from taking neck shots....so I would have a good comparison....the softer bullets damaged more tissue than the harder...On lung shots with the harder bullets it wasn't unusual for a deer to run 75-100 yards...and a few ran up to 125 yards...but I did have a decent blood trail to find them....One bullet was so hard that I quit using, Remington Premium BT 100gr...they have since quit making...If I had been a new .243 owner and would have started with this bullet and would have bought into the idea of full penetration at all costs...I wouldn't have thought much of a .243...and probably would have traded for a .270...
By the way...if I know a guy is only going to hunt deer a few times a year...and only shoot 8-10 bullets a year with his deer rifle...I recommend a .270...My brother has two...I've killed deer with...shoot 130gr Federal Premium....but he damages a lot of meat...I've tried to get him to change bullets....but he doesn't like to shoot like I do, as a matter of fact, I sight his rifles in for him, and he just hunts with....His guns both shoot about a 1 1/4 group at 100 yds...he's happy...On center lung shots, his gun doesn't drop deer any faster than my .243....now...he makes a bigger hole...When I want to drop them I either take a neck shot (if the range isn't too far) or a high shoulder or a high lung shot...

It seems that deer shot through the lungs are running dead (or holding their breath)...My brother and I were hunting together one time, on the ground, covering a wheat field, where he had been watching about 30 does come out each evening...we had 5 does come out...about 175 yards away....the plan was to shoot on 3...well, he went 1-2 BANG...he was suppose to shoot the lead doe (which he did)... I was suppose to take the 3rd doe (facing the woods)...at the shot, my deer bolted...so I got on the only doe that was stopped...facing the woods..at the shot, she bolted to the woods....He was shooting Federal Premium 130gr BTSP...I was at that time shooting Federal Premium 100gr BTSP...Well...we found his deer...flipped her over....she was shot twice!!! His shot entered her left side...about 3-4 inches behind the crease in the shoulder...my bullet entered her right side (she had flipped around on me)....about one inch behind the crease in the shoulder....both center lung hits on a broadside deer.....this deer still ran about 60 yards....That convinced me that the size hole on lung shot deer didn't matter as much as most of us think...to drop them...keep the shots close to the spine.

OK...back to the Sierra 85gr HPBT...I shoot the Federal Premium load...they claim 3320fps...out of a 24 inch barrel...Which I have, as I had my gun re-barreled about 8 years ago...I first heard of this bullet while in a sporting goods store in Ahoskie, NC (eastern NC) the guy behind the counter said that most of his .243 hunters used this bullet...I thought he was crazy..thought it was only good for groundhogs...he said just try it...
I killed a big doe with it that afternoon....range about 125 years...bullet entered the left shoulder blade, went through the spine, through the right shoulder blade, and ended up under the hide on the right side...shot another doe with the Remington Premium 100gr BT (harder bullet)...hit in same place...both dropped...no farther than 3 steps away from each other...but the Remington bullet exited...left a hole about an inch in diameter....I had two hunting buddies on that farm with me...both thought I had to shoot the 1st doe twice...The next evening...I killed another big doe....225 yards...quartering away....85gr...entered between last two ribs...through the right shoulder blade...ended up under the hide on right side...she dropped....picked out another doe...about 200 yards away...using Remington 100gr Premium (backup bullet as I wasn't convinced yet)...2nd doe was hit with a center lung shot...she was broadside....and ran over 100 yards...made it into the woods...about 50 yards....since that deer...I have only used the 85 gr...as well as 2  of my buddies....I did have one of these kill a 8pt at 235yds...center lung...good exit whole...(two inches)...deer ran about 50 yards....we have  killed 17 deer with this bullet...ranges from about 30 to 235 yards....never lost one...exits on lung shots....through both shoulder blades on shoulder shots...even at close range....

We have sighted in 2 1/2 inches high at 100 yards...are about 2 1/2 low at 300....none of the 100gr bullets will come close to this....at 300 yards velocity is suppose to be 2600fps....the 100gr Partitions are 2300 and 2380 for the Federal 100gr BTSP...Federal quotes energy at 300 yards as 1280 for the 85 gr, 1170 for the Partition and 1260 for the 100gr BTSP...because of the higher velocity, the energy levels are higher...Who cares what the bullet weighs if it gives good penetration, and damages a lot of tissue when it gets there??? This bullet has higher energy levels than any 100gr factory loading. Velocity at 300 is higher than any 100gr factory load at 200....Why use a bullet that has less velocity and less energy, if another bullet will give adequate penetration??? A faster bullet will upset faster when it hits the target....Now...if a man is hunting in the woods...and will not have shots over 100yds...he might want to use a Partition, Hornady or Core Lokt, in 100gr...I have some I'm trying to use up in this way...but the deer that I've shot within 50 yards with this bullet, didn't know the difference.


Like I said....I called Sierra this morning...asked about this bullet....They told me that they get more reports on this bullet dropping deer on the spot than the ANY bullet in ANY caliber....They said it didn't seem to matter what range...Had a doctor call about this bullet last week...he had a buddy shooting a .243, and dropping deer....wanted to know what bullet they had that would  do the same in his caliber (The Sierra man didn't remember what caliber the doctor was using)....He told him...there wasn't one....they get calls like this all the time...He told the doctor to buy a .243.

Now, if I lived out West...and could hunt elk or big bears..or had windy conditions that those guys have to deal with...or had 300 pound deer to hunt....or had 400 yard shots....I would re-think my selection....Probably would have a 300 Mag...with a muzzle break and ear plugs!!!

[Rmouleart]

The thing with he 243 win is using the right bullet for the job, shooters beware, if bye mistake you use a varmint bullet on deer, you may find the bullet will shed its jacket and frag on solid bone, the heavy weight bullets 90gr-115gr are the best on deer like animals due to there thicker skin jackets for bigger game, I found that the Hornady Interlock bt or flatbase are affordable and known field tested bullet if you are reloading, if you are buying factory ammo, the 100gr winchester power points Molly and none Molly coated seems to have good results using factory loads. The way I look at it I want to use near the largest bullet weight for deer like animals, think of it this way, most 30 cals use 150gr-180gr bullets on deer like animals. Also using smaller bullet weights the wind becomes more of a factor.,of course bottom line shot placement is no#1. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[flintlock]

The Federal Premium 85gr HPBT...penetrates BETTER than either 100gr Wichester loading....I tried them both...factory Hornady bullets penetrated much better than Power-Points....but, past 200 yards they dropped much more than the 85gr Federal loads...this is a proven deer killer, not a varmit bullet...bullet design has much to do with penetration, the hollow point bullet starts to open up after it has entered the deer...whereas bullets with exposed lead (like the Power Points) tend to open up as soon as they hit the deer...I suspect this is why the penetrate is better....
As I stated...I didn't believe either...until I tried this bullet...I just wanted to make .243 shooters know that there was another option out there...especially if they anticipate longer (past 200yds) shots...
As previously stated...inside 200 it doesn't really matter, all the bullets I tried did the job...I would say that the Core Lokts, Hornadys, Partitions and the Federal 100gr BTSP...gave a good combination of penetration and expansion....inside of 200 yards....but, the Federal Premium 85gr BTHP outperformed them all...at any range.

[Rmouleart]

I bet the Federal factory load is a Speer grandslam/bonded bearclaw bullet, I will have to take a close look at it, I'm a reloader don't really use factory loads, find my reloads work much better and find accuracy better as well. Once you get into the reloading world, you never go back to factory loads for the most part, using Hornadys 100 gr interlock BT on top of 42gr Re19, using Fed Gm210m primers and a lee factory crimp, best game getter I have loaded in my 243Win.,shoots clover leaf all day. Bye the way there is nothing wrong with a bullet that opens up on impact, just as long as it holds together, thats what I want a bullet to do, bigger dia bigger hole, bleedout is faster, more trauma to the body. thats what the mushroom bullet is, perfect expansion of a bullet, take a look at the Barns X bullet, they mushroom perfectly on impact and stay together very well. Aim small hit small RAMbo.

[flintlock]

Nope...Its a Sierra GameKing...Refer back to my two posts on Deer Hunting...another post on NEF Centerfire Rifles...Post is "Best factory Deer loads .243" another guy had called Sierra, as well as I called this morning...Their number is 1-800-223-8799.

[Atomic Chicken]

flintlock,

Thanks for the great deer information!  I also noticed the 107 Gr. HPBT was a match round, after making my original post.  Looks like the only other thing on the market that has similar weight/BC in a hunting round is a 105 Gr. HPBT by Hornady - available with or without Moly coating.  Could be interesting, but from what you are saying in your long post above the 85 Gr. sound like the best thing going.

Quick off-topic question for you - how do you like your Ruger 77 ?  I have pretty much decided to buy a Ruger 77 MKII all-weather in .243 Win. for my "backwoods gun", what do you think?  Also, what power scope do you use when hunting deer, and what power do you typically keep it set to?  I am considering a 10X fixed power, but some people on this forum have said that is probably too powerful.  I am considering the gun for varmint and deer use from 50-200 yards, so I personally think the 10X will be just about right - but I'd like to get as many opinions as I can.

Best wishes,
Bawko

[SLAVAGE]

i think i can help you out realy good on this one
i got the ruger all weather 243 last year
an well
I LOVE IT  
for real though i got it  this past november an i put my sightron 2.5-7x32 on it then got an x-tra set of rings an put a junk tasco 2-10x40 on it for killen hogs i have the harris bipod on it all so, shot a deer 120 yards last year an it droped dead not a noice or even picked its leg up to make a set just went right down,
i will say one thing the front sling stud sucks
who ever u get the gun off of have them take it off an put the mikes sling stud that has the bolt on the other side
mine came right out as i was walken from the store to the truck thank god i grabed it, so that would be the first thing to do while you are filling out the paperwork
but i do wish i would of got this years ago its fun to shot it climbed about an inch from the deck when your shooting it  but all an all i would buy another one tomarrow if some thing happened to this one
if you nead ill take a few pics an you can see what it looks like i dident go with the stainless scope an im glad i dident it looks realy good black stock stainless barrel action an rings then a black mat scope

if you have any questions about it just let me know, hell u want to shoot it before you decide to go get one if your around pgh let me know will go punch some paper

dave

[flintlock]

Atomic...I've had good luck with my Ruger...my brother bought a used one just like, except his is in .270....both have the tang safety...I don't care for the new safety (on bolt) although its suppose to be safer...reasons I like: 1)Rings...can't be beat...2nd best setup would be Leupold in Dual Dovetail...2)very easy to disassemble and clean bolt
I haven't learned yet to disassemble bolt on a Remington...I need to because we also use 700's and have a couple of Model 7s in camp...
I had my trigger adjusted, by a gunsmith at 2 1/2 pounds...before I took it home in 1980....My Ruger of course has a blue barrel and wood stock...
I had it pillar bedded and the action glass bedded...and I free floated the barrel...then I put three coats of linseed oil on the inside and outside of stock....every few years I clean the trigger assembly with brake cleaner and relube the trigger with G-98....It shot fine before the modifications...and I used for about 12 years...with nothing but having the trigger adjusted when new...I've heard the new Rugers can also be adjusted...although not as easily...or you can have a Timney trigger installed....I did a little shooting on Memorial Day...from 10-5...LOL...and shot a 1 1/4 inch group...10 shots....5 different lot numbers...had some Federal 85grs that were older and needed shooting...shooting prone..off my Harris bipod...I didn't think that was too bad...using factory stuff...
Especially with a heavy duplex reticle...

We have also had good luck with Remingtons...they are easier to adjust the trigger on....just have to backout one screw 3/4-1 1/2 turn and reseal with fingernail polish...most of our Remingtons are the cheaper Model 700...with synthetic stock and blue barrel....I setup a buddies in .243 Youth Model last year...it would shoot 100gr Hornadys into a dime at 100yards....he had been using a 30-06 auto for years...he's about 5'6"
and killed a a nice 10pt the first morning he used...his 12yr old daughter killed her first deer (doe) the next week with that gun.

The scope that I put on the gun in 1980 was a Bushnell Scopechief 3-9
it stayed on the gun until about 1995...I used this scope on a lot of groundhogs...usually set at 9 power...worked fine...I replaced it wth a Leupold VX-II 3-9...that's what I use now...the Scopechief is now on ny brother's .270...Currently I believe all but one of our hunters use Leupolds in VX-II or VX-III...all are 3-9...one buddy did just buy a Nikon Buckmaster in 4.5 x 14...that might be another option for you...I just don't need that much magnification...you have to remember...if you go to 10x you are going to affect the light gathering ability of that scope....
my other brother has a VX-III in 3.5 x 10...50mm...on his .280...I've hunted with his gun...my eyes can't tell any difference in light gathering between his and my VX-II 3-9..40mm...I also sent my scope back to Leupold a few years back and had a heavy duplex reticle installed...this really helps for those shots that come later in the evening....in NC legal shooting stops at 30min after sundown...with a VX-II 40mm...you easily can see until that time....I haven't seen a need for more light gathering than these scopes give me...Leupold does make a 4-12 VX-II 40mm...It all depends on how much $$$ you want to spend...and the Nikon Monarch comes in a 4-12...40mmAO...about $379...weight is 16oz...verses 12oz for a Leupold 3-9...40mm The Nikon is about 13.5 inches long and 3.4 inches eye relief...might be best of both worlds...

In the woods, I set my scope at 4-5 power...over a field...8-9...this works for me...unless you are shooting ground hogs at 350yds...I think a 9-10 power is enough...flintlock

[Atomic Chicken]

flintlock,

Thank you for the great info!  It sounds like 10X won't be too high a power for what I have in mind for this rifle, the reason I want that particular fixed power scope is that it is VERY bright, rugged, and has a mil-dot reticle for range finding.  I am going to be using this rifle for long range shots anyway, and it sounds like you keep your variable scope set at 9X for that type of shooting.

Once again, thanks for all the great postings - you've been very informative!

Best wishes,
Bawko