Who has extra-strength Contender hammer springs?

[Monkeyman]

I have some primers that seem a little harder than usual and I'm getting a few misfires.  I fitted a replacement TC hammer spring a few months ago but it felt little better than the one I took out.  I need some extra spring muscle!

[Double D]

I think you need to look some where else besides getting an extra strength spring.

What brand primer are you shooting

What caliber are you shooting?

Are you full length resizing?

Is this a factory barrel?

[Monkeyman]

primers - CCISR and WinSP.  Barrels factory 10" .357 and 21" Hornet converted to 'K'.  Factory Hornet and 38/357 ammo shoots fine, reloads misfire 50% of the time.  K-hornet brass and 357 brass are FL sized.  I've tried a few different reloading things with both these barrels with similar results.  In both cases the primers show light strike marks, sometimes when I hit them again they fire, sometimes they don't.  Wacha think?  If it was only one barrel I'd suspect the barrel or load but the results with both barrels are the same.  My only other barrel is a rimfire and sometimes that misfires with Federal 711B ammo as well. also with light strike.

[Double D]

All three barrels misfire?

If everything is TC here's what I would do.  I would box everything up and write letter to expplaining each problem separately and ship the hole works to TC.

In about two weeks you will  have everything back and it will work. I used to have a Gunsmithing shop and that how I solved what few real repair problems I had with TC's.  

TC's solution to these problems was to simply replace all defective equipment, no charge.

[T/C nimrod]

Sounds like the same old - same old. I see two(2) barrels listed, and both have the same problem, and both are firing handloads. My .02 cents, T/C is notorious for having weak firing springs after use. Knowing this, How old is the frame, or how many rounds has it seen? Second, How deep are you setting the primers? I have a .35 Rem barrel that is very tempermental when it comes to primer depth. I actually put a stop on my hand primer so i wouldn't seat too deep. This is the only barrel I have this problem with, so I know it's not a spring problem. Had to replace springs in both frames I own due to the same problem you're having. Problems stopped in both guns right after fixes!

[Bullseye]

Does the gun have a hammer extension?  I have had them cause me misfires with a Contender and will not use them anymore.

[Graybeard]

I've heard this old saw about weak hammer springs but I don't buy it. Don't care where it comes from. I've replaced exactly ONE hammer spring in the well over 20 years I've been shooting TCs to include heavy competition shooting with them. That one time I replaced a factory spring with a stronger after market spring which promptly broke and I put back in the factory spring. I'm still shooting that frame with that same spring and in over 20 years of use it is doing fine and still popping those caps.

I think this is a cop out for folks that are doing something else wrong and can't figure out what. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

GB

[PaulS]

I have to agree with Graybeard. I have an old Contender with the original frame. I bought it new and used it in Hunter's Pistol competition  for two years shooting a lot of .357 magnum handloads (about 160 rounds a week) plus two other barrels and the only misfires I ever had were MY fault. Case mis-formed in sizing or too long and wouldn't let the action close completely. If a weapon fires factory ammo and stutters on reloads, the reloads are suspect first.

PaulS

[Double D]

Now if the Hammer spring was weak it would misfire factory ammo also. the fact thaq ti doesn't say the problem lies elsewhere.

The number one culprit that I constanly encountered in my shop dealing with misfires with TC's was the instructions from RCBS on how to set a re sizing die.

Run the ram to the top and screw the die down to touch. WRONG!

That will over size and  push the shoulder back, and over work brass fast.  If you can drop a resized case in the chamber and close the action gently it's excessively sized.

All brass for the TC should be resized so it takes a snap to shut the action.  That goes for straightwall as well as bottlenecked cases.  

Redding sizing adjustment intructions tell the proper way to adjust a sizing die.

I don't have a set Redding instructions in front of me for an exact quote, but here is the gist of it.

Run the ram to the top and screw the sizing die down to touch the shell holder, then back the die out a full turn.  Size a case and try it in the TC chamber. Turn the die in 1/8 of a turn and try again. Keep going an 1/8 of a turn at a time until the action will just snap shut.

Not seating the primer all the way to the bottom wil encourage misfires as the first thing the firing pin strike does is drive the primer to the bottom of the hole.

In my 20 odd years or so playing with TC the only thing I have seen wrong with TC hammer springs is they had broke.

The other question for you is which 22K Hornet do you have.  Dave Davison of CH4D and I exchanged a series of emails last year.  We came up with 7 different versions of the K-Hornet.  If your gunsmith made the rim  of your chamber just .001 or 2 too deep and your chamber K-Hornet has shorter  neck than your resizing die K-Hornet, you are going push that shoulder back and misfires will be the results

The original Kilbourne Hornet has a neck almost as long as the parent Hornet.

[Monkeyman]

Thanks for the excellent replies fellas, I have some work to do!  As far as cleaning goes, I'll be honest and say that this gun doesn't get much attention.  I mainly use it for plinking and travelling (with folding stock) so there's quite a bit of work to do there.  I'll start with stripping and brake cleaner this pm.  As far as resizing goes, I have been 'over-sizing' the 357 mag cases - I'll try again with the holder not touching the die.  Thanks again.

[T/C nimrod]

Double D - Hey, you're only the third person I know of that caught that process in the RCBS literature. I gave them a friendly call about three years ago - apparently that didn't do any good. The primer point is a good one too - however I have one that doesn't apply to that thought. Hmmmmm...... I wonder how much force needs to be applied to a primer for ignition vs. the amount of pressure needed to move the primer body .004".  :eek: Oh boy here I go again!!

[Double D]

If you  have a hard primer like a CCI there is a good chance that the  little bit of movement that comes from the firing pin to push the primer to the bottom of the primer hole will be enough to cushion the blow and result in a misfire. A good indicator of this is if you can recock and fire.  Sometimes they won't fire on the second or any other tries as the primer is not yet fully seated and is still moving, or the primer pellet has been crushed.

On the other hand with a soft primer like a Federal that is not seated fully the primer can rupture on the edge of the cup.  Had a fellow who brought me a Marlin lever action That was doing this.  I  notice that his primers were seated high.  I asked him why. He said that the reloaded rounds wouldn't fire unless he seated the primers that way.  I asked him if I he full length resized.  He said yes.  

I took one of his fired cases reloaded it by leaving the resizing die screwed out one full turn so it neck sized only. He was sure surprised when it fired.  He had been pushing the shoulder back when he sized.  When he fired, the firing pin pushed the case foreward into the chamber causing a misfire. He solved the problem by pushing the case forward  with the primer sticking out.

I really liked that little 35 Remington Marlin but I couldn't get him to part with it after that..

[Steve P]

 I have broken one hammer spring.  Have had several replaced, but just because T/C rep was doing the "freebee" check out on the gun at a large match.  

I would check the barrel lugs and lockup.  I don't think your reloads are sized right and the barrel isn't locking up properly.  Check some of the prior posts on proper sizing.  I wont go into the novel approach on sizing as it is different for every barrel and frame.  

Open and close the barrel/frame with the gun empty.  Do it softly.  Do it hard.  Now do it with factory ammo. Soft and Hard.  Now do it with your reloads.  If any differance at all it is the ammo.  

Good Luck,

Steve :wink:

[Double D]

T/C Nimrod,

RCBS has been taken to task for years over that quide for adjusting sizing dies.  They choose to ignore the complaint. I think that has been published by every reloading rag around.  The only differenc eis in the old days they use to write "heres what wrong with the RCBS instructions..."  now days they say "try this to adjust your sizing die"  the never say RCBS and never say what problems those instruction create.

I told a customer that was the problem with his misfires and he went home and brought the instructions to me and told me I was wrong.  I handed him a set of Redding Die instructions and said read this then go home and try it. I think he did.  He came back to the shop a lot after that, but he never said (admit?) his problem went away.

[speed2]

I guess I may get rassed for this but when I start practicing for the new season of competition in Jan.I'll change the hammer spring once a month & the stricker spring.You have to remember they are your lock time so, keep em new.I've shot nra hunter pistol since 84 & I have had alot of hammer & stricker springs break.I'll shoot 10,000 plus of 22's in a season & maybe half of that #of center fire.Also when I go to a big match like the national I'll completly respring each frame.Also in the winter when I'm not shooting I'm dry firing so the stricker spring is getting a work out there also.Do you know how much you need to dry fire?You need to do it so much that when one ear of the stricker spring breaks you'll know it.Don't really know about your miss fires but I would suspect the headspace is not right.Most of the time its not to hard to figure out,get with some guys that shoot nra or ihmsa competition & I'll bet you they can help.    speed2  

[Double D]

You won't catch no flack here.  You sound like a very dedicate competition shooter to me.

I recall back in the days when I competed in IHMSA. I only practiced twice a week and dry fired every day, then shot one or two matches a month.  I only fired Revolver and Production classes in .22.  I could feel the hammer fall in my Ruger Single Six and my TC.  You get so tuned in that you can feel the arc of the hmmer fall in that Ruger.  But, I never felt a need to change hammer springs.  Maybee that's why I was never more that a AAA shooter

In fact I didn't feel that the guns shot right until they had a couple of 1000 rounds through then.

[HBL]

I think Gramps has it.

I agree, I would first check and make sure the brass is sized properly and headspaced properly by removing the extractor and making sure the barrel and action lock up. Also if the bullet is seated too far out and is touching the lands, it can also cause a mis-fire.

Rimless cartridges are notorious for misfires if headspacing is not properly done.

I have been shooting contenders for right around 20 years and have yet to have a mis-fire that was not directly related to headspace error on myself.

NOw that I have learned how to properly check this, I have yet to have another mis-fire.

Good Luck,

HBL