Processing WWs

[Mitch in MI]

I'm getting ready to start casting centerfire bullets for the first time, have worked with pure lead for muzzleloaders in the past.

I got a 5 gal pail of WW yesterday, have been rinsing them and sorting out the cigarette butts, valve stems, etc.

About half of them are painted, the rest are wearing various shades of patina. Is there an easy way to tell if there is any zinc in the WW, or do you just melt them all and hope for the best?

Is the silver paint a problem, or do you just melt them down and skim the paint residue off the top?

Thanks,
Mitch.

[John Traveler]

Mitch,

I make it a habit to cull out the chrome plated weights that come in flat strips with adhesive backing.  They are made for sticking to mag-type wheels, and in my experience, are more likely to contain zinc which is ruinous to bullet alloy.

Another trick is to melt in smaller batches and cast a few sample bullets (I use large .45-70 or .50 molds) to test the alloy for "flowability".  If a batch is zinc contaminated, it will be obvious that the mold refulses to fill out.  That batch is either discarded or set aside so it won't contaminate the rest of the melt.

If you want to be more refined in your smelting, sort out the ww by size and manufacturer.  It doesn't hurt to do a scratch test to make sure the lead alloy is relatively soft.  I use letter stamps to mark each ingot (WW, LINO, L, etc)

And YES, melting will burn off paint, grease, tape, and trash.  Yur simply skim the crap off before pouring into ingot molds.

John

[Tom W.]

I take mine and go through them as I cast, removing the zinc weights. you'll know them when you see them, they look different. DO NOT put wet wheelweights into your pot to melt them. It is very dangerous, and the resultant explosion could be dangerous to life, limb and property.  As for the paint, clips and other junk that is produced, you can just skim that off and discard it, an old coffee can works well as a retainer. BTW, don't make the mistake of rendering your wheelweights down in the house. The fumes ain't all that pleasant. I have the burner from a turkey cooker that I use in the yard, and because the pan that I have for melting the alloy is somewhat small, I have an old 19" gangsaw blade that I set my pan on to keep it from falling.

[Lloyd Smale]

been melting them all down for years never seperated anything and have never had a problem with zinc. If there in there there has never been enough to cause a problem

[Mitch in MI]

Lloyd, it would be great if the reason I can't figure out which ones have zinc is because none of them do.
I think I'll fire small batches in my Lee pot when I want to cast bullets, and make ingots from whatever is left at the end of a casting session. Then I'll worry about bad batches when/if I have one.

[Leftoverdj]

I been known to smelt WW so wet there was a half gallon of water in my smelting pot. Don't so no harm as long as you start off cold. I wouldn't go adding wet WW to the pot after I had molten alloy showing though.

[calvon]

I bought a propane burner at the local farm store, similar to the ones sold with "turkey fryers". I also bought a sixteen inch cast iron dutch oven.

First I sort the wheel weights, removing all the tire stems and other junk that gets tossed into the trash at the tire store, including the stick-on weights that come in strips. Those are nearly pure lead, are very soft, and are detrimental to your bullet alloy.

After the sorting is done I fill the dutch oven with the sorted clip-on type wheelweights. I pay no attention to whether or not they are painted. With the dutch oven piled high with the weights I then light the propane burner and melt them down. I use an old stainless steel slotted cooking spoon to skim off the clips, which are steel, and which float on the molten lead. Then I flux with whatever is at hand, bullet lube, pine pitch, paraffin wax, solder flux, etc. Stir and skim until the surface of the molten metal looks clean and is shiny, almost like a mirror.

I add ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the MOLTEN lead other than the fluxing material. At this point if you toss in ANYTHING with WATER in it you have just set off a seven hundred degree HAND GRENADE!

Then, with a dipper ladle I pour the molten lead into an old cast iron muffin tin that I use for an ingot mold. Once the melt has all been cast into ingots, and if I have more wheelweights to process, I turn off the burner and fill the dutch oven as before, and with the dutch oven again full of wheelweights, repeat the process described above.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Casters,

Well, from my years of experience, most/all of all the above info sounds good to me.

Would also second the cautions about adding anything wet to an already hot pot, as it quickly gets totally out of hand. Maybe I should say instantly rather then quickly, but either way it is something to avoid.

My main reason in posting here, is what I have found with WW in relation to bottom pour pots.

I at one time, thought I would like to try a bottom pour with WW and what I found was not only can I out cast a bottom pour with a good ladle, but found that the spout quickly plugged while using WW. If you can't buy this line of thought, then you haven't tried one of the good bottom pour ladles.

I contacted the NRA about the problem and their answer was that it was a problem I would never get away from as long as I used the WW. Their thought was that it was not possible to get the mix clean enough to prevent the problem. Well, maybe not, but is IS clean enough to make grand bullets and lots of them!

In short, my efforts with the bottom pour were short lived as the production volumn was not even close to what I would expect from a ladle.

Anyway, I just keep shooting the WW and spend little time in sorting before melt down as everything such as valve stems etc. will quickly be skimmed off during the melting and fluxing process.

One other comment is about our waste. It is really to your/our best interest to be selective about just who sees our skimmings as this is an official Haz. waste.  The wrong person sees this and they will be all over you about "the proper" way of getting rid of such items. Read "proper" as expensive and time consuming.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[calvon]

Casting with Wheel Weights revisited.

Some have problems casting from a bottom pour pot while using wheel weights. I'm using a Magma Master Pot (40 pound capacity) with dual orifices and have cast thousands of bullets from straight wheel weight with no problems at all. I run the pot at about 750 degrees.

The main advantage of the bottom pour pot to me is that I can cast bullets while sitting down. That is important when the legs you stand on are 80 years old, as mine are. I might be able to cast for half an hour while standing but two or even three hours is possible while sitting.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there calvon,

Good to hear from you, I hope I am still able to cast and shoot when I make that grand number. At 61, I sometimes wonder if I'll ever make it.

Have you ever tried different temps. with the WW?  I think I have read/heard that maybe a higher temp might help the problem I found.

Possibly your Magma Master pot is part of the answer. I have heard they make good products.

Anyway, even though the legs kill me after standing in one place for awhile, I hope to keep going with the ladle for awhile. Depending on the outside temp. I can usually keep 3 - 4 molds going at one time by myself AND IF I could find a good partner to open molds again, it only take once or twice a year and 3 - 4 hours of casting to keep me shooting.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[calvon]

I think some of the reasons why my Magma bottom pour pot works as well as it does are:

1. Forty pounds of lead is a lot compared to the eight or ten pounds you can get into a Lee. You can cast for two hours without stopping to add ingots.

2. The Magma pot, according to Magma's PR lady, has a temperature swing of ten degrees. That implies an accurate thermostat. These are Magma's contributions.

3. (My contributions.) I melt my wheelweights in a cast iron dutch oven over a "turkey fryer" propane heater. While in the dutch oven I carefully flux the melt, scraping the sides thoroughly, and skimming off the dross. I do this two or three times until the surface of the melt is bright and shiny, almost like a mirror. Only then do I cast the melt into my ingot molds. Thus the alloy that goes into the Magma is as clean as I know how to get it.

4. Pot temperature. Others say that the lowest temperature that will fully fill out the mold is the way to go. I don't quarrel with that. I've had some problems with bullet fill-out at temperatures under 700 degrees, so I give it an extra 50 degrees and don't look back. I have set mine at 750 degrees which seems to work for me. I have also cast at higher temperatures with good results, though the process is a bit slower because you spend more time waiting for the  mold to cool down prior to dropping the bullets from it.

5. I've noticed that flow from the pot is diminished when it gets down to about a quarter full. I stop then, put back the sprues, and if I'm going to cast some more, add some ingots.

6. I get very few reject bullets. Part of that, I think, is because I use a consistent pattern to my casting. I don't try to set any records; between 200 and 250 bullets per hour, using a two cavity mold, satisfies me. I place the mold on the mold rest under the pot and fill the mold. Leave it there for a few seconds until the sprue has frozen. Pull it back and watch it for a few more seconds. At first, the sprue will be shiny. That fades into a rather attractive silver frost, which in turn fades into a very dull looking surface. At this point I cut the sprue and drop the bullets. If you get in a hurry and cut the sprue too soon you will get a lead smear on the underside of the sprue plate. You will also get a rough looking sprue area in the center of the bullet where the sprue cutter has torn the sprue from the bullet. Done properly you will have a slick looking sliced look on the base of the bullet and your bullets will have consistent weights.

6. I use Veral Smith's LBT molds. I haven't used a lot of other molds, a couple or three brands I guess. I don't need to try any others. My mind is closed on this subject.

7. Now for what some will call heresy: Smith advocates preheating the mold by dipping a corner into the melt. I have done this with every mold I have. Stick a corner of the cold mold into the melt and count off ten seconds. Take it out for another ten. Then repeat this cycle two more times. Most likely the first bullets you cast that session will be good. If they are not it is because you have a bit of oil in the mold. Wipe that out with a scrap of a paper towel, and go to it. No, my molds have not warped. If they did, I would quit this horrendous practice.

[Darrell Davis]

Hellow again calvon,

Once again, thanks.

You speak about letting your molds cool to a certain point before opening.

Well, as I am concerned with maximizing my production, this is one of the main reasons I use 3 - 4 molds ( I have used 5 on hot days). Rather then waiting for one mold to cool, I set down and fill another which is also set down while yet another is filled. I don't cast that often, and want a goodly amount of production when I do.

I soon get into a rhythm and am able to move rapidly along.

As I indicated in the earlier post, it really speeds things up if I have a good partner. Alas, the oldest son is long gone and the last guy I tried to break in couldn't keep the pace for long before he hollered "uncle."

I will sure "second" your comment about the LBT molds. I have only one, but is by far the best casting mold I have ever had/used. That mold is for a 310gr/44cal/gas check mold. It was made for a Blackhawk Hunter I once had, but it does just fine in the Redhawk I now own.

Keep em coming! :wink: