Author Topic: Lever Action Rifle (Read 783 times)

The Platte County Kid · « **on:** February 18, 2004, 03:37:10 PM »

Hey Gents,
I don't know if I'm headed for diaster or what. I shoot monthly at a Long Range match and we have a varitity of classes. One class of course is Lever Action Big Bore. And of course with me being a Dark Sider and all, I'm wanting to shoot my 38/55 Model 94 with BP. We do have time between shots, so a blow tube may be possible (but the old cowboys didn't have them when they were shootin at injuns) So how did they keep them from a foulin up?

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The Platte County Kid

John Traveler · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2004, 08:36:43 PM »

From what I've been able to read on the Old West, blow tubes were not used by your typical cow-puncher survivalist shooter. He was doing good to even have a repeating rifle and a sidearm. Many didn't and couldn't afford the Colt, Remington, Winchester, and Marlins that Hollywood shows every western horseman to have. Plus, typical engagement distances did not require great accuracy or precision. A repeater's great advantage is to mow down multiple adversaries before they can close and get to YOU.

The use of blow tubes was adopted by BPCR target shooters of the late 1800's and that practice is used by some modern BPCR competive shooters. Much of it is probably affectation, and intended as part of the hocus-pocus ritual of BPCR shooting. Many shooters don't do it at all and still place competitively.

As for how did old-tyme buffalo hunters and military shooters do it when volume-of-fire was needed? Simple. They cleaned their barrels every few shots. Military ammunition used "japan wax" (bayberry) wads loaded between bullet base and powder charge to scrape out the bulk of fouling and provide some lubrication. Civilian ammunition did not have this feature.

HTH
John

PowderFlask2 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2004, 02:13:36 AM »

Kid

I can't answer your question about lever actions but maybe the shorter barrels on them help

In my experience with BPCR if you neglect to blowtube the fouling will be in the last few inches of a 30" barrel

I tried this as an experiment and the fouling was dry and hard and accuracy went to crap in a hurry. It was however not hard to remove with plenty of soap and water

If you try this in a lever gun I would be interested in how it works for you

Dutch Canyon Red · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2004, 09:30:25 AM »

Kid,
Use a bullet that will hold a lot of lube and use a good BP lube, such as SPG. This should keep the fouling soft. If the fouling still is hard enough to cause problems, try using a lube cookie behind the bullet. Don't know how your matches are set up but if you have time between relays, pull a boresnake through the barrel.

The Platte County Kid · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2004, 03:17:33 PM »

Thanks Pards for the info. I am using Lee Shavers Lube in all my BP Cartridges. We will just have to see how it works out.

The Kid

JBMauser · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2004, 01:41:23 PM »

Before this thread closes I would like to pose this question. I am just getting into this game. I have a 30/30 lever and a .45 Trapper. I am more concerned with cleaning the action than I am fouling. I have not made up my mind on loading BP for pistol and 777 for the lever guns to address the action and fouling. I have never dissasembled a lever gun. I don't think I want that to be a every shoot occurance. comments? Thanks. JB

nohorse · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2004, 03:33:29 PM »

I hear that duplexing works really well for eliminating a lot of fouling. Particulalry in the action. Makes the BP burn really clean. I haven't tried it yet but am considerin' it in my 1886 45-70. Has anyone tried this?

The Platte County Kid · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2004, 04:12:28 PM »

That may be a possibility. Let me do a little research.

Thanks
The Platte County Kid

The Shrink · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2004, 10:29:04 AM »

If you're shooting hot enough that your brass isn't sooty, how is fouling gonna get into the action? It don't even get past the case. In my Marlin 336 I take out the bolt to clean from the breach, so it's child's play to clean with the muzzle down. Admittedly, I haven't tried black in the 30-30, so this is theory rather than practice.

Wayne the Shrink

w30wcf · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2004, 12:52:10 AM »

The type of black powder used can also make a big difference in fouling.

Back in the late 1800's, the W.R.A. Co., U.M.C. and others used black powders that produced soft fouling, allowing repeated shots without much reduction in accuracy.

Unlike today, there were a number of black powder manufacturers back in those days of yore, so the pressure was on to produce the best black powder available.

In Marlin's 1897 catalog, they list a number of Black Powders to be used in the .38-55:
American Powder Mills Rifle Cartridge No. 3
California Powder Works Pacific Rifle No. 1
Duponts Rifle FG
Hazards Kentucky Rifle FG
Kings Special FFG
Laflin & Rand s Orange Rifle Extra FFG
Oriental Powder Mills Western Sporting FFG
Oriental Powder Mills Wingshot No. 2

Today, the only black powder that is equal too and/or better than the good quality Sporting black powders of the late 1800's is made in Switzerland and burns with soft fouling in most applications. SWISS powder is available in the U.S. You can purchase it in 5# lots at: http://www.powderinc.com/order.htm#swiss At $ 16.00/lb it is more expensive than Goex, but in my .44W.C.F. with a pitted barrel it still shoots accurately long after the accuracy with Goex has deteriorated significantly.

Have fun,
w30wcf

w30wcf · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2004, 01:02:35 AM »

JBMauser,

No problem at all with b.p. in the .30-30. The thinner case neck seals everything up a ok. No fouling gets back into the action.

That is not true with the .45 Colt however. Thicker case walls at the mouth and more generous chamber dimensions do allow leakage. To reduce the fouling in the action, necksize the cases only and use .454-.456" bullets. What also really helps is to anneal the case necks, making them slightly more elastic, which seals things up better. If you do all of the above, you will most likely eliminate b.p. fouling from getting into the action.

w30wcf

The Platte County Kid · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2004, 04:22:25 PM »

Thanks Jack for the info on Swiss powder and the brief history.

The Kid

willysjeep134 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 15, 2004, 06:56:13 PM »

I was thinking about making some BP 30-30 loads just for fun, I guess Winchester made the .32 win special cartrige for that purpose though because supposedly the 30-30 bore fouled up more quickly. .32 win special came loaded with smokeless but was designed to reload with black. I might just try some BP 30-30 loads and report back.