Author Topic: Questions on cleaning (Read 1159 times)

poorcountrypreacher · « **on:** June 17, 2004, 06:38:40 AM »

After reading this, some of you will understand why I wanted to find a good load for my gun and then set it back on the rack until deer season.

I am either doing something entirely wrong in my cleanup procedure, or my expectations are far too high. When I bought my gun last summer, a friend recommended the TC products, so I bought the TC Bore Clean and Bore Butter. I have seen here that the Bore Butter is universally hated, so I have already junked it. HAven't seen anything about their Bore Cleaner, but it is all natural, and with this SS barrel I'm thinking I need some harsh chemicals.

Here's what I did today: I removed the barrel and put it into a wooden vice, then used the cleaning jag with a cotton patch that was saturated with bore cleaner. It came out black, so I did another one, and it was just as black. I then put the muzzle into a pan of hot water with dishwashing liquid and worked the patched jag up and down until the barrel had been filled with hot water and then forced out 5 or 6 times. Then I put it into the vice again and used another patch saturated with bore cleaner. Well, it was just as black as it was the first time. 25 patches later, it was still just as black. I finally switched to dry patches and after 7 or 8 patches it was fairly clean coming out. I then saturated a patch with a bore oil I use on my other guns and ran it thru it. It looks clean, but I think if I ran a wet patch thru it now it would still come out dirty.

I suspect I need a new bore cleaner. But I also wonder if I am expecting too much. I've read several web posts where the hot water method is about all that some people do. Any idea why I can't get a clean barrel from that method?

All of this doesn't even count the time spent cleaning the breech plug and bolt. I spent an hour and a half trying to get it clean, and while I do think it is ok now, I gotta be doing something wrong. The people that talk about a 10 minute cleanup are doing something different from me.

Thanks for any help.

SURVEYOR · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2004, 06:57:56 AM »

http://www.realtree.com/bluelk/index.tpl

whitfang · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2004, 08:30:53 AM »

Something IS wrong here. If you are cleaning from the breech end with the muzzle in a bucket of hot soapy water, it should not take that many patches. Does the cleaning jag and patch fit tight enough in the bore?

Why is a vise involved in the cleaning procedure?

squirrel_hunter6 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2004, 09:28:36 AM »

Hi PCP,

I'm new to muzzleloading myself. I only spend a little over an hour cleaning my Winchester X-150. It only takes about three or four swabs for the patches to back clean from the barrel. I spend most of my time cleaning the breach plug and the threads in the barrel where it screws into. It ends up looking just like new.

Here is the method I have been using:

1) Clean the bolt, inside and out. I use REM Oil.

2)Clean the breach plug and threads. I took Chuck's advice and let it sit in some hot soapy water for a little while. Then I spray the inside of the hole with Breakfree Gun Scrubber. It seems to do a real good job on getting out the powder residue.

3) I spray some Gun Scrubber down the barrel and work a wire brush up and down it a few times. I then swab the barrel with T/C Bore Cleaner.

4)Now that everything is clean, I wipe it down with REM Oil.

Try some Breakfree Gun Scrubber next time you clean it.

poorcountrypreacher · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2004, 09:30:34 AM »

Jules - Thanks for the link, but I read that entire article a few days ago.

Whitefang - There is a good, tight fit on the jag; it takes a good bit of pressure to move it. The water is moving all the way up the barrel as work the jag up, and then it is forced out when I push it down. The barrel was very warm when I got through, but the patches were still coming out discolored. Maybe I am expecting too much in thinking they should come out white?

I use the vise on my B&D Workbench to hold the barrel stable while I clean it. Its just a little easier than holding it myself.

poorcountrypreacher · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2004, 09:34:53 AM »

Thanks Squirrel hunter, I'll look for some Gun Scrubber. Maybe that is the missing ingridient.

By the way, what type squirrel hunting do you do - stalk or dog? I enjoy both and have a couple of feists that I hunt with in Feb.

Vapour · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2004, 09:39:01 AM »

You shouldn't have patches coming out black at the end of the cleaning process. They should come out the same color that they go in. I use hot soapy water for 3-5 patches, patch dry, then a few patches with Hoppes no. 9 or CLP depending on the day, patch dry, and oil. The worst part for me is cleaning the breech plug screws, but the barrel cleans up pretty quickly.

SURVEYOR · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2004, 09:52:11 AM »

With 777 in my White I use Windex, Rem bore cleaner, Rem Oil, a dry patch or 2, and I'm finished in 10 patches or so. I soak my breech plug over night in Mean Green and water. If it gets too hard to clean that is.

Jules J.

big6x6 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2004, 01:55:42 PM »

Hmmm. I've NEVER had a barrel that was that hard to clean.

When I get home I remove bolts/breech plugs. Put the breech plugs in hot soapy water. I then saturate a patch with Birchwood/Casey #77 Black Powder Solvent and go back and forth a few times down the barrel. I get a new patch and do it again. Then I just put it aside and allow it to soak a while. After soaking I get a brush and scrub the heck out of the barrel. Then it's just a matter of pushing dry patches thru until dry. I follow up with a good gun oil/rust preventative. That's it.

poorcountrypreacher · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:12:17 PM »

Thanks for the replies - looks like you guys are using a lot of different cleaning products and all of them work better than mine. I'm suspecting I need a better solvent/cleaner, but I don't understand why soapy water doesn't work better for me than it does.

I'll keep trying.

whitfang · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2004, 02:34:06 PM »

A couple more thoughts, but I'm really just guessing now:

Lead fouling? Are you shooting sabots or lead bullets of some type? Could it just be lead that you need to use a bristle and solvent to remove?

Teflon treatment? Has your gun barrel had a teflon coating applied that is now coming off when you use a solvent?

Cosmoline? Bore Butter Buildup? Have you spent enough at Cabelas to avoid their black patch voodoo curse?

poorcountrypreacher · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2004, 06:24:47 AM »

Hi White Fang - Can't be lead, never fired anything but saboted bullets. No teflon treatment. Could be Bore Butter buildup, I have put a lot on it in the year that I have I had it. Also, this gun had had less than 50 rounds put thru it, and I haven't done any kind of lapping on it.

I have fire lapped several CF barrels and a couple of .22s - it always seemed to help them clean easier. I've never read anything about it, but it seems like a ML would be easy to fire lap. Or is that a bad idea? Thanks

flintlock · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2004, 07:39:22 AM »

A homemade solvent I've used for years consists of equal parts Murphy Oil Soap, peroxide and rubbing alcohol...I use this when shooting in competition with my flintlocks....Just a couple of patches (both sides)...then a dry patch, and I'm ready for the next shot....I have also used this solution in inlines, when sighting in for them...works fine....Don't store in a glass
jar...as this solution expands over time...and will break a glass jar...when I'm through for the day, I usually use 4-5 patches before they come out totally clean...

When sighting in inlines...I have also used rubbing alcohol...pour a little on two patches...squeeze them out....so they are not too wet...run down bore...both sides...run a dry patch down...lube with a patch of gun oil...and shoot again...

whitfang · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2004, 10:21:46 AM »

I see from an earlier post that you are having this cleaning problem with a non-T/C muzzleloader.

Sell the black Knight!

Buy a stainless steel Encore!

You won't have this problem once you have a GOOD gun!

Wolfhound · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2004, 01:28:30 PM »

Quote from: whitfang

I see from an earlier post that you are having this cleaning problem with a non-T/C muzzleloader.

Sell the black Knight!

Buy a stainless steel Encore!

You won't have this problem once you have a GOOD gun!

Nothing wrong with a Knight. I have 3 of them. Nothing wrong with T/C either, have 1 of them so far.

Quote from: poorcountrypreacher

HAven't seen anything about their Bore Cleaner, but it is all natural, and with this SS barrel I'm thinking I need some harsh chemicals.

I suspect I need a new bore cleaner. But I also wonder if I am expecting too much. I've read several web posts where the hot water method is about all that some people do. Any idea why I can't get a clean barrel from that method?

All of this doesn't even count the time spent cleaning the breech plug and bolt. I spent an hour and a half trying to get it clean, and while I do think it is ok now, I gotta be doing something wrong. The people that talk about a 10 minute cleanup are doing something different from me.

Ok, sorry I didn't respond sooner. T/C #13 is decent for swabbing between shots, but for clean up isn't nearly as good as others on the market. After all plain old water is a decend swabbing method too. I use Butches Blackpowder Bore Bhine for clean up and CVA sabot solvent from time to time to disolve any plastic residue buildup. A good bore brush will help during normal cleaning to help keeping it from building up much. You don't mention what powder you are using, but Triple Seven is easier to clean than Pyrodex.

Also just another thing, did you thouroughly clean out the barrel when you got the rifle? Firearm manufacturers put in an agent which prevents rust from forming during storage. It's possible (though unlikely) that this is your problem. Several good normal cleanings will eventually remove this. I notice you've had this gun for a while, but since you didn't mention anything, I thought I would mention it.

Another thing, I noticed in another thread that you only shoot sabots. Sabots will not smooth out your rifling and it's possible that buildup is in the pores. With a new muzzleloader I always shoot a full package of Powerbelts through the rifle to break it in some. This smoothes out the rifling which helps (in my opinion) with both cleaning and accuracy. I'm sure there's likely more I'm forgetting, but hopefully one of these will help with your problem.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2004, 03:54:09 PM »

I believe it was in Shooting Times that I read this recipe. Windex with vinegar cut with distilled water. I can't remember the ratio maybe 20:1 +. The Windex is the product sold with the vinegar in it. I use it followed with a patch of Kroils. In the field at the bench I will use a alcohol swab folled by a patch of oil.
Jim

poorcountrypreacher · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2004, 03:17:15 PM »

Thanks for all the good advice. If I try everything mentioned here I will spend more money than I did on the gun.

As far as TC being superior, I wouldn't argue with anybody about the quality of TC stuff. I have been a Contenderoid a long time. But I am also impressed with the quality and accuracy of this Knight gun. It is very well made and has a great trigger right out of the box. My cousin bought an Omega the same time I bought mine and he hasn't been able to get it to group at all.

The idea of shooting some lead bullets thru it makes a lot of sense - I should have thought of that myself. What do you you think of rolling some of them in fine lapping compound to fire lap it? I wouldn't want to overdo that, but it was an idea I had. I should have realized that shooting nothing but plastic thru it would never break it in at all. I suspect that, along with my inadequate bore cleaner is my problem. I'll try some of the cleaners mentioned and put some lead bullets thru it and report back. Thanks again.

big6x6 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2004, 03:42:12 PM »

Wolfhound is on the ball as usual.

"Another thing, I noticed in another thread that you only shoot sabots. Sabots will not smooth out your rifling and it's possible that buildup is in the pores. With a new muzzleloader I always shoot a full package of Powerbelts through the rifle to break it in some. This smoothes out the rifling which helps (in my opinion) with both cleaning and accuracy."

Some EXCELLENT advice. This is what I do also. 20-50 Powerbelts thru the barrel can't do anything but help. Another great idea is after cleaning with your solvent use some JB paste and give your barrel about 50-100 up and down strokes. You won't BELIEVE how good it cleans and what will come out of your barrel. Even after you THINK it is clean!

squirrel_hunter6 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2004, 05:43:42 AM »

Quote

By the way, what type squirrel hunting do you do - stalk or dog? I enjoy both and have a couple of feists that I hunt with in Feb.

I prefer the sit and stalk method. I usually find a nice grove of Hickory/Oak trees and sit and wait for them to come out. If this doesn't work, I start stalking them. I have never tried using dogs.

I noticed on one of your posts that you are attending seminary. Which one are you going to?[/quote]

poorcountrypreacher · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2004, 12:57:52 PM »

Hi again Squirrel Hunter. I am attending New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary; have taken most of my classes at the Extension Center in Birmingham, but also have to take 10 weeks on campus. I've finished about all I can take at B'ham, so now I have to drive to NO for classes.

By the way, looks like you got your priorities right on hunting.

Take care.