Author Topic: 45-70 = master of disaster (Read 3161 times)

timbertoes · « **on:** February 21, 2004, 03:38:28 PM »

Holy smokes ... 4 rounds, 300 grain factory, my shoulder is the disaster, the cartridge is the master!! also did not hit the paper 3 times (100 yds).

after that my .223 did not feel so mild either

I'll have to work on this one.

already decided to get the wife to make me a wearable shoulder pad.

what a brute. NEF Handi Rifle, you can count on the fact I'm reading the "add weight" and recoil reducer threads

singed,
wimpy

shooter · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2004, 07:00:21 PM »

I had the same rifle...shot 22 rounds from the bench and i was hurtin.
Shooter

Lawdog · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2004, 10:14:30 AM »

timbertoes,

Two suggestions that may help you. One, install a mercury recoil insert in the stock. Only adds a few oz. to your rifle but will sure help with the hurting. Two, use a "sissy pad". That is a 5(or so) pound bad a bird shot(I use #6 shot) that you put between your shoulder and the butt of the rifle. I use this when I shoot my .450 Rigby off the bench. After 50 or so shots you can still play the guitar. Lawdog

Roadtrash · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2004, 08:24:53 PM »

Try standing and using crossed shooting sticks instead of the traditional bench. With the body standing it will absorb the recoil much better without the solid jar you get from the bench. Anyway it's the way I like to go, try it.
Roadtrash

xnmr53 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:23:42 AM »

timbertoes,

Another factor in the impact the recoil has on your shoulder (pun intended) is your posture. A friend of mine who considers anything less than a .458 Winchester a mouse gun explained this to me.

Many shooting benches are so low that you end up leaning forward in order to bring your shoulders, arms, and eyes down to the gun. When shooting a heavy caliber rifle, your spine should be as vertical as possible in order to absorb the recoil. If you are leaning into the recoil, it's going to hurt!

Some fear that if you sit up straight, the recoil will knock them over backwards. It won't -- it takes something like a 4-bore elephant rifle to do that. (That event was interesting -- to watch! :eek: )

dpastor · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2004, 09:50:25 AM »

Ttoes

Any idea what the velocity was on those rounds? When I loaded my 45-70 with 300gr jacketed to an estimated 1800 fps, 10 rounds was more than enough. I do have lots of fun with this Handi, however, 2-2 1/2" groups at 100 yds with the open sights if I pay attention. I use 45gr Pyrodex and 405 gr wheel weight bullets with Alox liquid lube, or a slightly hotter 34 gr Reloder 7 with the same bullet. Hot loads are for people with excellent, hard teeth (harder to chip).

You discovered why, in about 1873, the loads for the trapdoor carbines were reduced.

aka Trapdoor

timbertoes · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2004, 05:10:54 AM »

Yes, the rangemaster told me it would be better when standing.

I wanted to, but got there late, and could not pick the the two benches where off hand can be done. Tis a small range, with an overhead protection "roof thing" that prevents standing shots.

thnak for the tips, all.
I was shooting the Rem. factory loads , 305? grain.

handirifle · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2004, 06:08:07 AM »

timbertoes,
Welcome to Big Bores :grin:
That's the beauty of the 45-70. Wait till you run a 405gr bullet down the barrel at 1800fps in the Buffalo Classic. Now you're talking recoil. Those factory loads fell mild after that. :grin:

You'll get used to it and learn to like it. I sold my BC but will get a 45-70 barrel for the Ultra when get is this weekend.

bufflernickl · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2004, 03:03:18 AM »

Timbertoes,

just this past Thurs, I shot my first .45-70 loads. These were in an H&R Shikari, so close to your rifle. I shot standing, with "improvised rest". 3 shots were w/300gr @1300 fps, a pussycat; 3 were 405 gr @1350 fps, just a nice kick. I am not a fan of heavy recoil so I can say these aren't hurtin' loads on the back side...and the last 3 were 525 gr @ 1550. The last were not pussycats!!! Calculated recoil was around 48 fpe.

However, I used a folded towel under my shirt (rifle has a shotgun recoil pad installed) and I'd have to say that it was not unpleasant. I'd not like to bench a couple dozen of these, as I have with 300 gr in the Ruger #1 .375 H&H.

I am 59 yo and weigh 168, so there's not a bit of meat on my shoulder, yet I enjoyed the shooting tremendously. Needless to say,I *have to have* a .45-70 now and am getting ready to go to a gunshow to see if I can find an Marlin 1895 or a barrel for my Ruger #3 action

stolivar · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2004, 05:16:04 PM »

if you can't stand factory 300 grainers, you better not reload for it or get bigger or hotter loads... factory 300 grainers are sissy loads....... :shock:

steve

MSP Ret · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2004, 03:06:47 PM »

Stolivar, I have to pretty much agree with you but I would not use the term "sissy Loads" when talking about any 45-7- load. They all hold their own. I however have not had any recoil problems with any 45-70 load I have shot, maybe its just me though. I do recall the only gun I did not enjoy shooting at the range was before I retired. our issue 18" barrelled Remington 870's with slugs from the prone position. They were miserable from that position, especially after 10 or 12 and timed fire for score....<><.... :cry:

stolivar · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2004, 03:32:14 PM »

I would rather fire my 45-70 hot loads all day then my 870 rem with 3.5 inchers...

steve

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2004, 06:19:49 PM »

MY BC felt no worse than my Savage 30-06 does. Except for the heaviest loads.

missed_shot · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2004, 02:07:47 AM »

YOU DON'T NEED " HOT LOADS" WITH A 45/70. I shoot 36 grains of 3031 with a 405 gr. rem bullet and it kills everything I hit . Mild recoil, fun to shoot and deadly. If you are masochistic than use a heavy load in a short light barrel , but if you want to shoot all day and shoot well- reduce the loads.

Joel · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2004, 04:18:48 AM »

I've been shootin my NEF 45/70 for a lot of years exclusively with 300 gr jacketed, at velocities from 1650 -2300 fps, and don't find recoil a big problem when shooting from one of the "high" benches at our range. I also installed a good Pachmyr pad on it years ago. That......and I've learned to relax and just let the recoil push me around some. Lots' of folks get all tensed up shooting that round, and that plus bad shooting posture contribute to a lot of the "pain" I suspect. Heck, it's fun to shoot the thing!

Castaway · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2004, 04:31:09 AM »

From the bench a 45-70 can be brutal. I place a sand bag between the stock and my shoulder to tame the recoil. Makes a big difference in the comfort level. When shooting at game, I don't feel it, I don't hear it and I'm shooting Ruger rated loads.

Deaf Smith · « **Reply #16 on:** April 12, 2004, 05:43:44 PM »

At least I am going to. My T/C Contender weighs less than 6 pounds so even factory loads can hurt as a pistol or carbine. But I may have a solution I heard about a muzzle break made by a gunsmith David white called the maximizer which he installs for $80 return shipping included it usuposedly works wonders on the neavy hitters in its full length size which is 4" long with a series of hole all around it. I also hear its loud but I can deal with that with plugs and muffs as long as my shoulder doesnt need reconstructive surgery after 50 rounds of ammo or so. as soon as I have the cash I am going to give this fellow a try. If it tames the 45/70 its the money.
Jim L

Sourdough · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:34:00 PM »

My 14 year old son loads and shoots his NEF 45-70 with 52 grains of IMR 3031 and a 400 grain bullet. I shot this load one time and that was standing, I would not want to shoot it from a bench. The kid only weighs 130 lbs, I weigh 230, he takes the recoil better than I do. Some people would say this is a hot load, YES it is. But the kid uses it to shoot Black Bears while drifting down rivers. There is also the chance that he will run into a Grizzly, so he wants the hottest load he can shot.

Will52100 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2004, 12:47:49 AM »

When I first got my Uberti high wall I shot factory 405 grainers, and thought, that's not to bad, then I started reloading with 3F black powder and 500 grain bullits and a generious crimp--about twenty rounds wearing only a t-shirt and I decided the steel but pad has got to go! Left a nice blueish cresent shaped imprint!

Cottonwood · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2004, 03:11:04 AM »

Quote from: Will52100

When I first got my Uberti high wall I shot factory 405 grainers, and thought, that's not to bad, then I started reloading with 3F black powder and 500 grain bullits and a generious crimp--about twenty rounds wearing only a t-shirt and I decided the steel but pad has got to go! Left a nice blueish cresent shaped imprint!

I got to ask... why did you put a crimp on a black powder cartridge load :eek:

Proper loading for these is NO crimp... just enough snugness to hold the bullit in place.

But I know what you mean about them heavier bullits, I wear a heavy leather vest when shooting all the strings that I do with the 45-70 using 500-gr to 520-gr and with my 45-90 using 550-gr.

Will52100 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 22, 2004, 08:27:32 PM »

Shoot I don't even neck size any more, these were the first loads I'd ever reloaded and wasn't sure about just seating the bullit.

I'm thinking about getting a mercury compensator from Brownells to help with the recoil which as long as I'm wearing a padded shirt isn't too bad!

Great pic by the way,

Will

Buffalogun · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2004, 03:51:44 PM »

timbertoes,

Been there, done that!
Now I shoot cast bullets in the Handi. I use the Lee 405HB/unsized over 25.2g of SR 4759 for a velocity around 1,450. This has all the recoil that I want and has been deadly on the local deer and it's quite accurate.
I have the Lee 459 3R 500g. bullet, but will not shoot it from the NEF!!!

Buffalogun

rmtaylor · « **Reply #22 on:** August 03, 2004, 03:01:13 AM »

I am now at 55 grs of H4198 with a 300 gr jacketed bullet and since I put the mercury recoil reducer in my 45-70 recoil is not a real problem anymore. Maybe my shooting is getting better but is seems that the hotter the load gets the accuracy gets better.

Richard

Lead pot · « **Reply #23 on:** August 10, 2004, 01:15:09 PM »

Arnie might say,a bunch of girly shooters eh? :lol:

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2004, 09:30:54 AM »

Quote from: kombi1976

Quote from: Lawdog
use a "sissy pad". That is a 5(or so) pound bad a bird shot(I use #6 shot) that you put between your shoulder and the butt of the rifle. I use this when I shoot my .450 Rigby off the bench. After 50 or so shots you can still play the guitar.

Well, Lawdog, I don't think any amount of shootin'will improve my guitar playing or, for that matter, that any amount of guitarin' will improve my accuracy with a rifle. But just to safe perhaps I should wear a "sissy pad" when I do both. :lol:

On my heavy kickin 45-70 and other rifles I wear a "sissy pad" . I don't try to be a macho man. I like to use my arm after I shoot.

Wlscott · « **Reply #25 on:** August 16, 2004, 10:33:02 AM »

After shooting about twenty of my 300 grain loads with 55 grains of H4198, I decieded that I needed to add some weight to my Ultra 45-70.

I took a peice of 3/4" copper tubing, cut it down to 8" long, and poured melted wheel weights into it untill it was full. It added about a pound of weight to my gun and helped a bunch.

I also use a large kitchen sponge against my shoulder when I'm shooting from the bench.

Now I've got my .223 barrel on my Ultra, and MAN is it heavy. I'm definately going to have to take the weight out for coyote hunting :lol:

marlinman93 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 16, 2004, 05:51:04 PM »

The H&R and tthe NEF can both benefit from more weight. Ideally it would be in the barrel, but a simpler solution is to remove the buttplate, and fill the hole underneath with #7 1/2 or #8 birdshot. Make it slightly high, and install the buttplate to hold it in. You'll be amazed at how much this reduces felt recoil!

yukonjim · « **Reply #27 on:** September 01, 2004, 01:52:04 PM »

I have a H&R Model 155 45/70. Shoots great. With 405 flat nose factory loads the recoil is mild. About like a 20 gauge shot shot. With 350 hollow points the recoil is up a bit. More like my 12 gauge single shot trap gun with 2 3/4 trap loads. Doesn't seem to be a problem though. But then again I don't shoot it all day at the range. primarily used for elk and occassionally a mulie here in the Pacific Northwest. :roll: