thanks guys, i tried parshals (another list) load with universal clays and 1 ounce 8 shot and got a good old 64 percent pattern average with modified choke.. even as could be with 10-20 miles per hour winds, and rising game gun (shoots 25 percent high which is great for upland birds) . im very happy.. the anserew seem to be in the mec press that alows me to tweek loads, and crushes any load that wont work (maybe).. starting at minumum wad pressures i can move up 10 lbs on loadings until i find minumum wad pressuer to make the shell not crush, also got a good 7/8 ounce bismuth load that looks like a real duck killer.. what looked like what was wrong was the powder charge in the crimp load manual was 12 percent higher than parshals load, .. i may have been getting high pressures with the roll criimp data i was using thus blowing patterns.. also there were very few roll crimp loads to try.. .. .. thanks dave..
