Need advice on loading .458 bullets without a cannelure.

[Smokey]

I'm brand new to reloading (haven't even started yet  - just bought the equipment) and will be reloading for my .45-70 Shiloh Sharps.  I bought some Barnes Original semi-spitzers in both 400 and 300 grain weights.  I've noticed that these bullets don't have a cannelure and am wondering what implications/problems this might present relative to seating depth.  Any suggestions/advice??

By the way, does anyone have any experience shooting these bullets out of a .45-70?  The look like they ought to be devastating on game!

[hunting1]

No problem! Buy a Lee factory crimp die and it is all good. I loaded my 45-70 pretty hot and never had any problems. Good Shoot'n!

[Larry Gibson]

"will be reloading for my .45-70 Shiloh Sharps.  I bought some Barnes Original semi-spitzers in both 400 and 300 grain weights.  I've noticed that these bullets don't have a cannelure and am wondering what implications/problems this might present relative to seating depth.  Any suggestions/advice??

By the way, does anyone have any experience shooting these bullets out of a .45-70?  The look like they ought to be devastating on game![/quote]

Smoky

You don't need to crimp for a single shot rifle.  After seating take the decapping rod out of your full length sizer and turn it into the press a couple threads.  Raise the ram with a loaded round in it and screw the die down till its tight.  Lower the ram and screw the die in just enough to straighten out the case mouth flair.  

If you really want a crimp the advice to get the Lee Factory Crimp die is best.  I use it on the Barnes 400 gr Originals myself.  However I shoot them out of a Siamese Mauser 45-70 at 2300 fps and a crimp is required there (your Sharps won't take that so didn't even think about it).  They go from one end of an elk out the other.  Have never recovered one from game.  Game was very dead, very quickly by the way.

Larry Gibson

[Smokey]

...with those loads out of your Mauser?  I know I can't come close to that in the Sharps but I'm wondering what kind of ballistic advantage the semi-spitzer design of the Barnes Originals actually give over the flat nose and roun nose bullets.  Thanks, also, for the advice!

Smokey

[EDG]

>>>I'm brand new to reloading (haven't even started yet - just bought the equipment) and will be reloading for my .45-70 Shiloh Sharps. I bought some Barnes Original semi-spitzers in both 400 and 300 grain weights. I've noticed that these bullets don't have a cannelure and am wondering what implications/problems this might present relative to seating depth. Any suggestions/advice??<<<

Just forget about crimping. Many reloaders adjust the seating depth based
the length required to just touch the rifling.
While the 45/70 is easy to load you might consider starting out reloading some of the less expensive Hornady, Remington or Speer jacketed bullets. There is more data available and you can shoot a little more without sweating the cost of the Barnes. You might restrict your loads to the Trapdoor recommended loads. While you have a well made rifle it is an older design. What does Shiloh recommend?
Ed

[Smokey]

EDG:

Shiloh limits their recommendation to factory loaded smokeless ammo, no doubt to protect themselves from liability.  However, Buffalo Bore makes some pretty hot .45-70 loads and claims that they are safe in the Shiloh Sharps rifles.  BB calls their loads ".45-70 Magnum" and claims that they'll drive a 350 grain slug 2150 fps, and a 405 grainer 2000 fps.  I've read several places that the Shiloh Sharps is considered to be the strongest action of its design.

I like your idea of starting with some of the less expensive bullets until I become proficient at reloading.  Makes good sense.

[Larry Gibson]

Smokey

I haven't really compared them trajectory wise by shooting them against RN or FNs.  A trajectory program shows you might get  about the same drop with the Barnes at 350 that yould get with a RN at 300 yards given the same velocity.  Over practical hunting ranges using a mid level power rife (Marlin, etc), probably not enough to get concerned about.  Problem is a regular 45-70 400 gr bullet is built for much lower velocities.  Much over 1900 fps and they are like a huge varmint bullet.  It was good terminal ballistics that led me to the Barnes for hunting. They hold together at the higher velocities I shoot them at whereas the regular 400s built for 1400 fps don't.  

However, if we compare a 400 gr Speer at 1900 fps against the Barnes at 2300 fps in the Siamese Mauser there is a very useable difference.  Given a 3" high zero at 100 yards the Speer with drop about 27 inches at 250 yards, the Barnes will drop about 6 inches.   The Barnes doesn't drop 27 inches until about 350 yards.  I shoot a GC 400 gr RN bullet at 1800 fps for a "fun" load.  I've noticed holdover at 300 to be about what is necessary with the Barnes load at 400 or so yards.  

In all honesty I really haven't shot much of any load past 200 yards very much with this rifle so the above is based on really limited experience.  The rifle is meant for serious up close hunting of big game, elk in a pole patch, bears, pigs, etc.  I've much more pleasant to shoot rifles that I use for fun at long range.  The Siamese with the Barnes load definately lets you know you've pulled a trigger!

Larry Gibson

...with those loads out of your Mauser?  I know I can't come close to that in the Sharps but I'm wondering what kind of ballistic advantage the semi-spitzer design of the Barnes Originals actually give over the flat nose and roun nose bullets.  Thanks, also, for the advice!

Smokey