Author Topic: How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?  (Read 1719 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Naphtali

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« on: May 31, 2004, 05:13:08 AM »
Although I shoot flintlocks, I am working up R.E.A.L. bullet loads. When shooting patched round balls (RBs), there is no lead fouling.  But now . . .

1. How do you inline non-saboted bullet shooters keep lead from barrels' IDs? If you cannot keep it from adhering to the ID, how do you get it off?
***
2. Those of you who cast their bullets, do you notice a difference in amount of leading if you alter bullet composition from pure lead? If yes, what works? Why?

3. Those of you who cast their bullets, what lubricants protect bore better from lead fouling, from black powder fouling AND lead fouling?

4. Those of you who cast their bullets, what lubricant do you use in cold weather? I mean COLD.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Offline Castaway

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1105
  • Gender: Male
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2004, 09:10:56 AM »
Not being a big black powder shooter, I don't feel comfortable answering some of our questions.  I can offer some advice on the title of your post though.  To clean lead, I use a Lewis lead remover which is nothing more than a rubber piece, attached to a rod that is slightly under bore diameter.  Over the rubber you attach a piece of bronze screen and run it down the barrel until it gets clean.  You don't need a Lewis "tool," you can use copper scrubs from the grocery store and attach them to a jag.  It will do the same thing and not harm the barrel.

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2004, 09:38:31 AM »
I have been doing fairly well casting my own from soft lead and leading if any at all, has been minimal.  I just been using BoreButter with Lee REALS and T/C Maxi's and MaxiHunters that I cast and shoot in sidelocks with blackpowder.

On used barrels that I have acquired that had lead and other serious fouling I found that an old brush with a little very fine steel wool will take just about anything out in short order.  Somestimes instead of a bristle brush I have used a Tornado spiral coil brush with the steel wool on both muzzleloaders and cartridge barrels.

Offline spinafish

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1161
  • Gender: Male
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2004, 11:34:02 AM »
dittos on all that Thomas mentioned in previous post..bore butter works just fine.
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis

Offline RandyWakeman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1246
    • RandyWakeman
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2004, 12:20:40 PM »
Kleen-BoreÂ’s S-10 solvent is a good lead remover. Soft lead conicals lubed with bore butter or any of the various home brew lubes is not a problem until 1425 fps or so. "COLD" weather is not the issue with a pre-lubed conical, hot weather gets it runny / messy.

Offline Naphtali

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2004, 04:47:06 AM »
What I think I'm reading is that any form of Bore Butter (Ox Yoke or T/C) will be my basis for lubricating bullets.
*****
RandyWakeman: You identify a ceiling velocity for lubricant, above which does lead fouling becomes a near certainty? In the absence of chronographed figures, I anticipate the load roughly as follows.

.54-caliber R.E.A.L. 300-grain bullet (.540”) #90397, 110-130 grains FFg. I anticipate muzzle velocity to be greater than the 1425 ft/sec threshold.

If I am correct that MV will exceed 1425, does this imply that something other than pure Pb should be cast bullet's chemistry? Or that lubricant composition will change to what? Or both?
******
Since the barrel has had only patched balls through it -- no lead contact with/on bore, is the consensus that treating the bore with Bore Butter or S-10 will preclude most of the problems?
******
Castaway: My first choice would be to avoid abrasive lead fouling removers, such as LLR and JB Bore Cleaning Compound in favor of some way of emulsifying the lead. But if scouring is required, you prefer LLR to an abrasive paste?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Offline RandyWakeman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1246
    • RandyWakeman
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2004, 08:17:14 PM »
Quote from: Naphtali
RandyWakeman: You identify a ceiling velocity for lubricant, above which does lead fouling becomes a near certainty? In the absence of chronographed figures, I anticipate the load roughly as follows.

.54-caliber R.E.A.L. 300-grain bullet (.540”) #90397, 110-130 grains FFg. I anticipate muzzle velocity to be greater than the 1425 ft/sec threshold.

If I am correct that MV will exceed 1425, does this imply that something other than pure Pb should be cast bullet's chemistry? Or that lubricant composition will change to what? Or both?


A 300 gr. .54 caliber conical isn't much bullet weight for the bore-- a .54 cal. round ball is already 230 grains.

The prelubed Buffalo ball-ets in .54 caliber are inexpensive, and are available in 338 gr. According to Buffalo, 1500 fps without leading is the norm. Knurled pure lead bullets are said to be able to be pushed a 150 fps faster than cannelured bullets, as the knurling holds more lube. Lee Liquid Alox is what Lee recommends for their REAL bullets, to remove the lead velocity ceiling is an obvious benefit of sabots.

The only thing that I know for certain about leading at an absolute velocity is that I am uncertain. :cry:

If you are hunting, there are only two basic considerations for terminal ballistics-- muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient. The lighter bore-sized conicals have horrible BC's. So, I'm really not sure what you are after here-- heavy, relatively slow conicals are more lethal at range than fast flyweights. That was proven all too well in the Civil War.

Offline Gatofeo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Gender: Male
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2004, 04:48:52 AM »
I shoot only patched ball in my .50-caliber Hawken-pattern rifle, so I never have a leading problem.
However, in my cap and ball revolvers I've found that pure, soft lead is best. It never leaves metal fouling in the bore.
Years ago, I cast some balls for my .36 Navy of wheelweight metal because it was all I had at the time. This alloy left leading in my bore. Very soft, pure lead does not. Go figure.
In both my rifle and cap and ball revolvers, I use a lubricated, hard felt wad over the powder and under the ball (patched in the rifle, nekkid in the pistol).
I lubricate the wad with a very old bullet lubricant recipe that undoubtedly dates to the 19th century:
1 part paraffin (I use canning paraffin, found in a 1 lb. block in the grocery store)
1 part tallow or lard (I use mutton tallow, sold by Dixie Gun Works. It seems to make the slickest feeling lube)
1/2 part beeswax

All amounts are by weight. I use a kitchen scale to measure 200/200/100 grams of ingredients, then put them in a quart Mason jar. Add the filled jar to a kettle with 3 or 4 inches of boiling water, for a double-boiler effect (the safest way to melt greases and waxes).
When all ingredients are melted, stir well with a clean stick or a disposable chopstick. Remove from heat and allow to cool at room temperature. Hastening cooling by plunging in ice water or placing in the refrigerator may cause the ingredients to separate.
Screw a lid down tight on the Mason jar and store in a cool, dry place. I store mine in a spare room, alongside the raw mutton tallow, and have never had it go rancid.
To lubricate felt wads, such as Wonder Wads sold by Ox-Yoke, place about 2 Tablespoons of lubricant in a clean tuna or pet food can. Place on the burner at very low heat, just enough to melt the lube. Now, add 100 wads or so (perhaps 50 for wads larger than .50 caliber). Stir the wads in the lubricant until all wads are well-soaked with lubricant. Add more lubricant if needed.
Allow the can and its contents to cool at room temperature. When cool, snap a plastic pet-food top over the can and you now have a container to take to the range. When you run low on wads, simply add more wads and lubricant and return to a low heat to replenish your stock.
The can does double-duty as a melter and container.
To load your rifle, add a measured amount of powder. Then gently ram the greased felt down gently, taking care to not tip it in the bore. Seat firmly against the powder. Follow this with a patched ball or, in your case, the Lee REAL bullet.
A felt wad doesn't work well with bullets that are hollowbased, such as those found in the .58 Civil War rifles. The wad interferes with the swelling of the rifle's skirt by hot gases and affects accuracy. But the REAL bullet has a flat base and shouldn't be affected.
You'll find that this extra step of seating a greased felt wad will keep your bore remarkably clean.
You'll also find that you needn't seat the wad each time you seat a bullet. If I'm in more of a shooting than loading mood, I'll load a greased felt wad every other time.
In my .50 rifle, with its basic sights (and my 49-year-old eyes) I can't tell a difference in point of impact at the ranges I shoot (25 to 100 yards). However, your own experience --- especially with that Lee bullet --- may be different.
Experiment. That's part of the fun of muzzleloading.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline Thomas Krupinski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2004, 04:54:22 AM »
Quote
Lee Liquid Alox is what Lee recommends for their REAL bullets

Randy,  Has Lee changed their recommendation?  The last I remember hearing from Lee, by e-mail and I think in the instructions accompanying some of their products, was that they warned against using Liquid Alox with blackpowder.  The tech that responded to my inquires said it will tar up the barrel with that combination.

Offline Blackhawk44

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 981
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2004, 02:39:17 PM »
I have never had a leading problem with the REAL, but in addition to the Bore Butter, I also add an OxYoke Wonder Wad beneath.  Greatly helps accuracy.  A new product called Blue Moon may be of interest since it supposedly removes leading with only a patch.  Have had some for 6-7 months, but I haven't had a leaded barrel to try it on.

Offline Questor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7075
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2004, 04:04:34 AM »
For removing lead fouling, nothing works better than wrappinig an under-size bronze brush with bronze wool, dipping the bronze wool in solvent, then working the bronze wool up and down the length of the barrel.  For instance, in a 45 caliber bore, I use a 38 caliber bore brush, wrap it with bronze wool so that it's snug in the bore, then use just enough solvent to moisten the bronze wool. Brownells and marine hardware stores sell bronze wool.  

Those chemicals may work, but it takes a lot more labor on your part.

Composition does make a big difference regarding cast bullets and fouling.  I have gotten the most horrendous, no, make that HORRENDOUS, leading when using hard cast bullets at about 1000fps in a 44 magnum barrel.  Using a softer alloy solved the problem. A lot depends on the velocity of the bullets.  Unfortunately I can't help you much with muzzle-loader bullets.
Safety first

Offline RandyWakeman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1246
    • RandyWakeman
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2004, 06:29:59 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Krupinski
Quote
Lee Liquid Alox is what Lee recommends for their REAL bullets

Randy,  Has Lee changed their recommendation?  


Not that I know of-- p. 200, Modern Reloading, 2nd Ed. (Richard Lee):

"The REAL bullet works best when lubed with Liquid Alox. The lube dries and clings tenaciously. You can shoot all day without cleaning the fouling from the bore."

Offline rob_helms

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
bore leading
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2004, 05:17:47 PM »
The best thing I have found to remove leading, especially in guns that must be cleaned from the muzzle. Is the lead removal cloth sold by Hoppe's , Kleen Bore and probably a couple of other companies. It's non abrasive, and can be cut into any size patch.
Rob Helms

Offline Naphtali

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2004, 07:46:58 AM »
Does the coiled wire TORNADO brush allow scouring to occur without having the brush head jam at the bottom of its first stroke as would an open wire brush?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Offline fffffg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
How to clean LEAD FOULING from barrel?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2004, 03:30:20 PM »
steel wool is for smoothing bore, i would not go that rout unless you have rough bore..  to get lead out you need to stop the leading..  to do this you need to analize what is happening..   do you have breach leading, muzzel leading or mid barrel leading..  breach leading is from stripping due to too soft of lead or too high start pressures...  soldering is when you have blow by melting the lead from too little power or too soft of lead or small bullet..  muzzel leading is from rough bore, or lube running out.. muzzel leading is caoused as i said but it can be caused by too soft of lead making lube run out,  lube can also run out becouse its (the lube) is  too soft..  i think your supposed to use soft lead so dont change that.. but changing skirts becoue of too  deep rifling or too little power,  can help alot.  you need to recover a bullet and see if you have blowby, or skirt blowoff, or no rifling engageing etc.. so to get the lead out you need to give us a whole lot more info.. once yhou stop the leading you will get it out with BRONZE BRUSH and hoppes solvent.. brush 25 times up and down then see what is happening with hoppes wet patches on old brush... then dry patche,, then 25 times and etc.. but you will never get anywhere until you stop leading.. dont worry about a little lead in bore until it stops then after shooting wtih good cleanings  it will slowly, totaly come out..  i shoot patched 16 gague smoothbore , cleanse faster than any gun i have..  no copper fouling, no laeading,  people just dont reailze that a patched ball gun is easiest of all the guns to clean.. if i dontget bacdk here email me at ffffgdave@yahoo.com   ..  i dont shoot  your kind of bullets but it should all be the same .. there is good descriptions of what is going on in lymans reloading book.. i have an old one i dont knowif its in the new ones..  good luck, dave..
montana!, home of the wolf,  deer,mtn goats,sheep, mountain lions, elk, moose and griz...