Author Topic: Why long barrels?  (Read 1200 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jpuke

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
Why long barrels?
« on: May 10, 2003, 02:16:54 PM »
My question is for those of you who have experience/knowledge with blackpowder rifles - why do the Sharps,Rolling Blocks, etc. have such long barrels?  Is the extra length really needed to increase the velocity of the bullet - or is it to get a longer sight radius?  Are they longer just to add weight to help make the rifle more stable?  I'll admit that I'm a smokeless guy, I'm not brave enough to mess with grease cookies, drop tubes, wads, etc. and I salute those of you who are.

Offline PaulS

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
Why long barrels?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2003, 08:48:44 PM »
jpuke,
The longer barrel lengths are necessary to get higher velocity from the pressures generated by black-powder. The longer sight radius is a plus but with old eyes that added radius can cause problems worse than any advantage gained.

PaulS
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Why long barrels?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2003, 08:43:30 AM »
Longer Sight Radius for me!
My main target with muzzle loaders is small game
so I need all the accuracy I can Get!
The barrel on my .32 Cal is 41 inches long
from Bolster to muzzle.  My .54 Cal. Hawkin clone
has a barrel of 24 inches and will fully consume
a 110 grain charge in that distance. Lay an old bed
sheet on the ground about 4 or 5 feet in front of
you when you shoot and examine the residue
that falls on it, Crude but effective to check for unburnt
powder.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Ed Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 56
Longer Barrels are Quieter!
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2004, 05:01:54 AM »
For small game and varmint rifles longer barrels are much quiter.   If you live in a settled area and want something more efective than a .22, without disturbing the neighbors or attracting attention the best thing is to put together a center-fire using a small capacity case, and a LONG barrel to enable bore pressure to subside by the time the bullet exits, minimize the report.

A Marlin .357 Mag. Cowboy II with 24" barrel loaded with mild .38 Special wadcutters comes "close" at about 82-85db, but what you really want is a "CB cap on steroids" which approximates the noise level of an effective subsonic load with a good suppressor, but without the suppressor!   The Finns call this a "cat sneeze" load, and that's about what it sounds like.
For a point of comparison, an MP5SD 9mm SMG with built in supressor firing subsonic ammunition is about 72 dB in noise level.  Normal .22 LR high velocity fired in a Ruger 10/.22 is about 85 dB.

I lucked into a tiny pre-war H&R .410 single-barrel shotgun in a trade.  I really didn’t have much use for the .410 shotgun, but saw that the tiny H&R was well made, had a much smaller action than current production and it was obvious that the makings of an “American Rook Rifle” lurked in there.  So I had John Taylor, of Taylor Machine (3625 Cheney Spangle Rd. Spangle, WA 99031) make an extra rifle barrel for it, so that I had my .32 break-open small game gun, without having to reline or cobble up the original .410 barrel. With the new 26” rifle barrel chambered for the .32 S&W Long installed it weighs 5 pounds, 4 ozs. and even with XS ghost ring sights and a reblue it cost less than half what a Marlin 1894 Cowboy .32 would, and that doesn't have a long enough barrel to be quiet enough.

Factory 98-gr. LRN loads in my American Rook Rifle sound like standard velocity .22 LR fired in a target rifle and provide 2-inch groups at 50 yards with iron sights. Flat-nosed .32 revolver bullets in suitable handloads are much more effective on small game and wild turkey than any .22 rimfire, but destroy less edible meat than a .22 Long Rifle HP or .22 WMR.

My favorite “.32 Long Rifle” loads use the Saeco #322, 120-gr. LFN .32-20 Winchester bullet.  I load these as-cast, of wheel weights, unsized, tumble lubed with Lee Liquid Alox with the bullet seated out and crimped in the lube groove.  This provides the same overall cartridge length in a .32 S&W Long case that would be  obtained by crimping the same bullet in the crimp groove of a .32 H&R Magnum case.  The exposed, unsized driving band fits snugly in revolver chambers and also engraved slightly when chambered in the  rifle chamber, enabling zero jump, for best accuracy.  

The minimum powder charge which safely enables the bullet to reliably exit the 26” rifle barrel every time is 1.2 grains of Bullseye. This is a "silent but deadly" 450 f.p.s. BLOOP load, with an almost silent report, measured at only 72dB at 1 meter from the rifle muzzle and is accurate to 25 yards.  

When loaded with 1.8 grains of Bullseye it provides 850 f.p.s. in the rifle, 720 f.p.s. in my 4” S&W Model 31 and is accurate to 50 yards or more.  This is a full power revolver load for the .32 S&W Long at the modest SAAMI pressures.

When the Saeco #322 is seated out to the longer overall cartridge length I have gone as high as 2.5 grains of Bullseye.  This gives about 800 f.p.s. in my 4” S&W Model 31 and Ruger 4-5/8” Single Six, and about 950 f.p.s. in the 26” rifle. The heavier FN bullet is far more effective than the usual 98-gr. LRN factory stuff, and still has a mild report, measured at 85-86dB, which compares to the “pop” of high velocity .22 LR fired from a typical sporting rifle and far more quiet than the 90+dB of a .22 WMR or Hornet.

If you decide to build one of these “American Rook Rifles” the chamber body dimensions should be minimum SAAMI, but you want a rifle-style throat with .314" diameter forcing cone entrance and 3 degree included angle origin of rifling. Rifling specs should approximate the .32-20, .300 bore x .310 groove, with 16" twist, but if you have a slow twist .30 cal. rifle barrel, such as 12” or  14” twist per turn, this will also work just fine.
In Home Mix We Trust
From the Home of Ed's Red
73 de KE4SKY

Offline marlinman93

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 849
Why long barrels?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2004, 01:46:56 PM »
Most of my late 1800's single shots have 30"-34" full octagon, or half octagon barrels. I am convinced after shooting many of these type guns that they have several advantages because of the long barrels.
 First is the sight radius. As scopes were developed, the need for longer barrels was eliminated.
 Second is velocity, as mentioned previously, with slower blackpowder charges, longer barrels were needed to completely burn these BP charges.
 Third, they simly balance better with these long barrels, which steady better than short barrels. It's kind of like a high wire act using a balance beam. The longer barrels take more movement on the shooters part to move the end of the muzzle, so it becomes steadier. I once saw a picture in one of my old single shot reference books, of a shooter using a rifle mounted to a long pole. The barrel wasn't any longer than other single shots, but the long pole it was mounted on looked something like a bazooka. The theory was it acted like a balance beam. The shooter supposedly shot very good offhand groups with this contraption, according to the author.
Ballard, the great American Rifles!