Author Topic: SA for defense/protection/trips,etc.... (Read 3016 times)

Camp Cook · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2004, 10:09:50 AM »

My carry guns are for bush carry only. Having said that..... which handgun I carry depends on what area I go into. I have 2 S/S Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt, a Glock 20 and Colt Delta Elite in 10mm. If I'm out in the winter months when the big animals are snoozing away or if I'm just jumping in and out of the truck alot I'll carry one of the 10mm's but if I'm hiking or working away off yonder I'll carry one of my 45 Colts loaded either with 300gr XTP's @ 1280fps or 330gr Cast Performance WFNGC's @ 1300fps. If I had to choose only one handgun for carry it would be one of my Ruger Single Action 45 Colt's ever time.

deadmarsh · « **Reply #31 on:** April 30, 2004, 07:05:06 AM »

-- For everyday concealed carry, I strap on a Colt Combat Commander or a Wilson CQB Compact. Easy to conceal, good weight, no worry about FTF...

-- Road trips in my truck where I will not be going into too many places except for fuel and food, I carry a Ruger Vaquero in a 3 1/2" BirdsHead in 45 Colt in a crossdraw holster. Comfortable, easy to get at while seated, powerful enough with full-load XTP for most critters...

-- For handgun hunting, I use long barreled Ruger Blackhawks in .44 Mag...

-- When hunting elk in the Bitteroot Mts., I carry a .35 Whelen Bolt and pack a S&W 629 Mountain Gun in 44 Mag loaded to the max...

In essence, find your our system of firearms that will work for you and that you are comfortable with; be certain you can hit what you're shooting at with all your carry sidearms...good luck

Dead

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #32 on:** May 03, 2004, 12:53:55 PM »

Hey Campcook, How do you get away with packing handguns in Canada?

-WH-

paladyn · « **Reply #33 on:** May 07, 2004, 05:38:23 AM »

I started out buying semi-autos, and with the lone exception of my Browning Hi Power, I cannot stand em.
I reload and fire rounds in my revolvers much quicker than anyone else at the range who are loading their mags for semi-autos, and my revolvers have never failed (with the one exception of a Taurus 617 I bought new, which was junk), unlike everyone else I know at my range who only shoot semi-autos.
I'm keeping the Browning, but I sold or traded off every other semi-auto I ever owned in favor of a revolver.

Sundown Holly · « **Reply #34 on:** May 18, 2004, 06:21:54 PM »

Hey Old Griz, enjoyed your comments and no offense taken. In my lifetime I've owned my 9mms, 40 S&Ws, 380s, 32's and 25s, all autos, and of course many 45's (1911's are my favorite!) And a large number of 357s and an occasional 44 Special. These days I rely on a Colt 45 Peacemaker in 4 5/8" configuration. For me it is the ideal balance between power and recoil. I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk that is a dandy but the old Colt fits my hand better and for me is more accurate. Besides all that it doesn't losen up my fillings when I fire it. And as for a Single action for self defense, a young fella named George S. Patton used a Colt 45 1911 in the 1912 Olympic Games and brought home a Silver Medal if memory serves me right. Afterward he retired it for a Colt 45 Peacemaker and used it down in Mexico where he was stationed as a Second Lieutenant on General Pershings staff. Used it in a gun battle too. Killed two members of Pancho Villas army. Later he carried it (along with a 357) in Europe during WW2. It just goes to show that it can be carried and used as a self defense weapon if you do your part and practice. I'd not want to argue with General Patton on that one!

Old Griz · « **Reply #35 on:** May 19, 2004, 05:44:27 PM »

:cb2: Not to take anything away from Old Blood 'n Guts, but he finished out of the medal round--but he deserved to win. Most of the other European weenies used .22s, but Patton used a .38 which made bigger holes. The judges ruled that he missed the paper completely on his last shot, but what likely happened was that it passed through the ragged hole his other shots had made. Being a gentleman, he didn't argue their biased opinions, and lost. I think he would have won the silver if they had counted it correctly. I don't know what kind of gun he used, however. Maybe someone can help us out on that.

Also someone might know: Did he ever fire those two fancy guns in combat, or did he just tote them around? (Of course, in the movie he tried to shoot down the plane with his .32 . . . yeah, right.)

Robert357 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 20, 2004, 06:42:36 AM »

OK, I'll put in my 2 cents worth.

When I go out into the deep woods hunting or hiking, I usually carry a 357 Mag (either single action or double action).

I usually prefer the double action, but also feel very comfortable (actually more comfortable from big bad 4 legged protection concerns).

Why I like a 357 Mag in a full flap, closed bottom holster at my side is because it is an "all purpose tool!"

I usually take with me 8 rounds of really powerful self defense 357 Mag ammo, 4 rounds of 38 Special Shot shells, 4 rounds of 38 special. Sometimes I will take a little more 38 special in different loadings and a little less shot shell. This is combined with a plastic 10 round shirt pocket cartridge box. That is 16 rounds total (6 for the revolver and 10 in my shirt pocket.

This gives me options from self defense, snake shooting, adding a little small game to the camp menu for dinner, and making noise to let an animal know I am over hear. Most bear I have seen are at a distance running like made, and yet bears are my major 4-legged concern.

Since my single actions are Ruger's with transfer bars, I don't feel any concern about loading all six chambers. My Taurus double action also won't allow the firing pin to get past a transfer bar unless the trigger is held back, so I feel comfortable loading 6 in that as well.

The advantage of the Taurus DA is that I can open the cylinder to quickly rotate the cylinder to determine what will be fired next or change ammo. In a non-self defence situation, one usually has time for such things (even enough time to do that with a SA).

The advantage of the Ruger Blackhawk SA is that I can handload 180 and 200 grain "hot" 357 Magnum rounds that will bring down pretty big things. If I standardize on nickel plated 38 Special rounds and brass 357 Mag rounds, it is also not to hard to figure out the appropriate load for either a Forest Grouse or rabbit that looks like dinner.

Again, if the purpose is a camping handgun, I would suggest a 357 Mag as a reasonable "outdoor tool." Yes, a 44 Mag, 44 Special, 45 Colt, or 41 Mag would provide more power, but probably less options, unless you really like to hand load a lot.

tubbythetuba · « **Reply #37 on:** May 25, 2004, 06:14:00 PM »

The best self defense gun to carry is the one you have on you when you need it.................nuff said :wink:

oso45-70 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 28, 2004, 09:44:31 AM »

Well Gentlemen,
I guess i'm another fool, according to some one ( not to mention any names ) I did not think that was called for under the circumstances,, we are all supposed to belong to the same tribe, fighting for the same thing.
There was some real good points made by some of the posters. I carry a SA revolver and i pity the poor fool that offers me a bad time. I think if it comes to the point that i must take it out i just hope the size of the gun and looking at the size of the bullets in the cylnder makes him or her think
that things are going down hill fast. ( and another thing ) He who says a
SA is slow has another think coming.

No Griz, It was not you that said that. Have a good day gentlemen.
.................................Joe..................................................................

EastKY_DO · « **Reply #39 on:** May 31, 2004, 04:40:11 AM »

Hello Old Griz,

Things must have really gotten worse in the River City since I left a few years ago. I've been up here in these hill and have never regretted leaving. For my money I don't feel undergunned with either SA or DA revolver. I like them both and I like semi-autos as well. The best defensive weapon is the one you have with you. If you can't use it well, don't carry it.

Old Griz · « **Reply #40 on:** May 31, 2004, 06:29:52 AM »

:cb2: Yeah, under King Willie the, ah . . . "democrats" have taken over everything--even the county government. It's a real mess. We have a golf course that separates us from a solidly democratic section of town. On any given night you can hear the sound of gunfire as our brothers settle their private disputes. Sometimes the strings of fire are quite long. I guess it really is harder to hit someone holding your gun sideways. So far no stray bullets have broken any windows, but it's just a matter of time. It's really scary on New Year's Eve. For about 15 minutes it sounds like the '68 Tet Offensive.

inluvwithsara · « **Reply #41 on:** July 07, 2004, 05:41:30 AM »

In the city ( I live in Northern VA, also known as hell) My Glock 45 fits the bill...
on car rides...my first wheel gun...SW 686+ 357...
around the house, on hikes, or just cause...my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 in 4 5/8ths...my wife likes my super redhawk with specials...scarey as heck and little recoil...but she likes the feel of the SBH, grip better...
If I had none...and had to get a gun to do it all, 44 mag or 45lc...maybe in a mountain gun...If I lived in a less hellish area, I'd go single action, but with the gangs and crap, I want double action though for me, from the leather to action, Single actions are the best...

Look up John Taffin(sp) "In Defence of the Single Action"

Major · « **Reply #42 on:** July 07, 2004, 11:04:10 AM »

Quote from: inluvwithsara

In the city ( I live in Northern VA, also known as hell) My Glock 45 fits the bill...
on car rides...my first wheel gun...SW 686+ 357...
around the house, on hikes, or just cause...my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 in 4 5/8ths...my wife likes my super redhawk with specials...scarey as heck and little recoil...but she likes the feel of the SBH, grip better...
If I had none...and had to get a gun to do it all, 44 mag or 45lc...maybe in a mountain gun...If I lived in a less hellish area, I'd go single action, but with the gangs and crap, I want double action though for me, from the leather to action, Single actions are the best...

Look up John Taffin(sp) "In Defence of the Single Action"

I am not your typical user. I used to put on quick draw demos to raise money to support youth activities. We shot blanks but we sure got to know our weapons. 10,000 rounds a year will do that for you. One thing we would do is show how it is reaction time that can get you in trouble. We would give someone in the audience a double action revolver with their choice of cocked or not. They would hold the pistol out in front of them and all they had to do was squeeze off a round when I moved. I could cock, clear leather and shoot my SA before they could just squeeze theirs. I could also cock, draw, shoot and fan a second shot so fast you would only hear one long shot. SAs are very fast and never fail.

By the way, I can do the same thing with lead in the chamber too and the SA still never fails. While I may not always hit the x dead center, I will always be inside the silhouette and if it was a man and not cardboard, he would be down for the count.

Have a nice day...

Old Griz · « **Reply #43 on:** July 07, 2004, 05:16:36 PM »

:cb2: My point exactly. You're "not your typical user."

Take that same poor Joe in the audience and give him a holstered DA revolver. Time him. Have him draw and fire.

Then give him a SA revolver. Time him. Have him "cock, clear leather and shoot."

Which gun will the average person be faster with?

Again, I love SA revolvers. When I go shootin for fun, I grab a SA. However, I'm objective enough to know that any normal person can shoot a DA faster than a SA, because it eliminates one step.

inluvwithsara · « **Reply #44 on:** July 08, 2004, 05:32:51 AM »

The reason I find the single action faster...points better...for speed with aiming...my 686 is just a bit faster than my glock...(by logic the glock should be faster with the short triger pull...)
as I draw a single action, (I have only owned one since Feb with only 300 rounds through it) I can hit a plate from the hip on instinct...with the double action, I don't need the sights, but I need the gun higher up in the draw to point shoot as well...
Old Griz, I am sure you are a much better shot and faster than I, I am just a young buck...who once thought the Desert Eagle was the best 44...(I hang my head in shame)
I have fired at least 10,000 rounds though my glocks, 5,000 out of my 686 and under 350 rounds out of any single action...
From the leather to hitting a paper plate 21 feet away, my new/first single action is much faster due to the pointing...and for some anoying reason, I can shoot my 4 5/8 super blackhawk better than my glocks, or my double actions...
again...for city, I agree in choosing a double action...I may buy a SW mountain gun in 44 of 45lc...that would be a great carry anywhere gun...

Major · « **Reply #45 on:** July 08, 2004, 08:50:09 AM »

As for shooting and hitting what you shoot at, I know very few that can hit the broad side of a barn when pulling in double action. Even those revolvers need to be shot single action to hit with any confidence at all.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 09, 2004, 05:35:52 AM »

What the heck- heres my opinion.

Yes the dependability of a revolver can't be beat. Hands down it the clear winner on dependability -- general rule.

However, if more capcity is needed. You have to go to a semi.

One can achieve bot dependability and more capacity with the semi. Pick a high quality semi, stick with it and know what ammo it LOVES.

I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry in 45acp and will bet my life on its dependability, extra capacity and faster reload time over one of my revolvers any day. This little Kimber has the longest cycle time of any short 1911 on the market which ensures its reliability. I have fired thousands of rounds thru this little gun and its reliability and accuracy have been near flawless. Honestly, I can only remember 2 times that I had a cycle problem and that was with some cheap reload swc.

myronman3 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 09, 2004, 06:11:37 PM »

the original ? was whether one would feel comfortable with a s.a. for protection on a camping trip from 2 legged and four legged threats. basically, will a s.a. get it done? undoubtedly yes. the s.a. even beats the auto when it comes to the 4 leg threats.
now if i KNEW i was going to get into a fight with bad guys, i would take a rifle. if only a pistol was viable then i would take my 1911 over my s.a.. but throw in the 4 leggers again and i would opt for the s.a.
really it comes done to having a gun when you need one, and being able to get it into play faster and better than the competition. style, action, and capacity are all really trival. so long as it is dependable and that it works for you.

Old Griz · « **Reply #48 on:** July 09, 2004, 08:04:18 PM »

Ah, come on myronman3--don't bring common sense into this argument. We're having too much brainless, opinionated fun! :-D

Sundown Holly · « **Reply #49 on:** July 10, 2004, 07:39:57 PM »

Hey Old Griz, in response to your original question, I believe the gun Patton used was a 45 ACP, or at least that is what I read. As far as using his Peacemaker in action, he did. During the Punitive expedition into Mexico to catch Pancho Villa (before WW I) he and a couple of soldiers armed with Springfield 03's came to a farm house where about 5 of Villa's men were hiding. In the shoot out Patton killed two (and they were carring rifles!), both with his Peacemaker. One of the men he killed turned out to be one of Villa's most trusted subordinates. And Patton, being a young fellow full of vinegar, tied the dead man to the side of the Dodge touring car he was driving and took him back to show General Pershing and the men (Patton was a young officer on Pershing's staff). Patton relied on the Colt 45 exclusively in that fight, but he also had the training and expertise to use it and kept a cool head under fire. When they reached the house the front door opened and the Villistas came charging out on horseback! To Patton's credit he didn't panic. If he had, it wouldn't have made any difference what kind of gun he was carrying! Side note, thank you for the Corinthians quote.

Old Griz · « **Reply #50 on:** July 11, 2004, 05:48:00 PM »

:cb2: I could easily be wrong about the automatic he shot at the plane with because it has been many years since I have seen the movie. And of course, it was just a movie, and if he really did do what they showed him doing, there's no telling what he used. I guess I'll have to find a copy of Omar Bradley's book and see what he says.

All generals, upon reaching their generalship, were issued a Browning .32 pocket pistol until about 1975. (I think that was the year-could be wrong again, however.) I believe that's when the government finally ran out of them. That's why I assumed what he pulled was that dinky .32 cuz he always had it with him.

twodollarpistol · « **Reply #51 on:** July 12, 2004, 07:49:55 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz

Ah, come on myronman3--don't bring common sense into this argument. We're having too much brainless, opinionated fun! :-D

Hey Old Griz
I love the way you put everything into perspective.

Old Griz · « **Reply #52 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:34:38 PM »

:cb2: Since we shoot to have fun, we outta be able to talk about it and still have fun, ain't we!??! :grin:

When we take ourselves too seriously, then somebody ain't havin fun no more.

By the way, can anyone else remember when people were so mad at Dizzy Dean, they wanted to get him kicked offa TV for saying, "ain't"

Gosh, what a dirty word. The kids I teach today don't believe me when I tell them that. Look how far our standards have fallen. Sad.

Sundown Holly · « **Reply #53 on:** July 13, 2004, 05:27:33 PM »

Old Griz, about what hand gun Patton used to shoot at that German plane, the August 2003 isssue of Guns magazine has an article by Massad Ayoob entitled "Handguns of the Generals." In that article he says that the gun Patton used was a Remington Model 51 in.380 caliber. He gives some of his references in the article so he's probably right. Interesting choice of a gun to use against a German plane!

Old Griz · « **Reply #54 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:27:49 PM »

:cb2: Well he sure knows more than I ever will. Thanks for clearing that up. Your right about the .380 v. airplane. I'd rather use something that would at least make a dent before it bounced off! .357s were loaded pretty hot back then. At least that would have made a loud enough "thump" that those in the plane would figure they'd been hit by something.

You know, the Italian sidearms were always .380s. Maybe that's why they never won a war! (Except in Ethiopia in 1934-35 when they were fighting guys with sticks. And even then it was close!)

Old Griz · « **Reply #55 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:47:21 PM »

:cb2: Did a quick search and the gun I was thinking aboutissued to senior officers and generalswas the Colt M1903 (designed by J.M. Browning, of course.), also made by FN as the No. 2, and by the Swedes. It was a .32, but it had a larger frame than the little Remington in the movie. Colt quit making them in the 30s, but the article didn't say when they ran out of them. I'm still thinking in was in the Vietnam era.

I wonder what they issue generals today? Hey, any generals out there who want to divulge what you stick in your belt?

PeterF. · « **Reply #56 on:** July 14, 2004, 02:47:13 AM »

Back in the old days (probably ending with WW II), if you were a General of a certain rank (maybe 3 or 4 star, certainly 5), it wasn't uncommon to sort-of "make up" your own uniform. I believe Patton (who, at the time, wasn't really that high up in rank) was known for his flambouyant "arrangement", with cavalry-type riding breaches and boots, short jacket, and ivory-handled pistols (not pearl ... said that would make him look like a New Orleans pimp). On the other hand, the "standard issue" officers dress uniform in the British cavalry of the same era included chain-mail epaulets and spurs.

Robert357 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 14, 2004, 07:05:28 AM »

Ok Old Griz. Sorry for the following thread drift, but you touched a hot button.

While I like my Ruger Single Actions and feel that either my 357 Blackhawk (with a 180 or 200 grain handloaded bullet in front of a full max loading of Alliant 2400) would be adequate for just about any man or beast and that my 45 (Long) Colt Ruger Blackhawk with a Keith type load would also knockdown just about anything, I do collect 32 Auto pistols manufactured prior to WW-1.

As such I have a number of Colt 1903's in 32 ACP. They are a fine pistol and very "concealable." In fact a number of police forces use to issue them.

As to stopping power, the 32 ACP is not in the same class as my 357's, but one also has to remember that more 32 Auto pistols have probably been made than just about any other caliber, except possible 22 LR. The 32 Auto was used by many european police forces for years and years.

The history of the 32 Auto cartridge (aka 32 Auto Colt Pistol) is closely tied to John Moses Browning who helped in its design prior to the turn of the prvious Century. One of the little known facts about the 32 Auto is that it is a semi-rimmed cartridge and can headspace on the tiny rim. John M Browning was looking for something that would work well in his pistols.

The capability fo the 32 auto isn't much, but it did have quite a following in the various gun magazines as the ideal backup gun when chambered in a SeaCamp (sp?) for many years. If you are a Marshal & Sandow fan (I am not, as I like heavier bullets)

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp

They give the 32 ACP in Winchester Silver Tip about a 66% rating which is a higher rating than they give the 38 Special (another firearm used by police for decades). The point of this is that while the 32 Auto isn't designed for anti-aircraft use, it is not something to be dismissed in a gun fight.

Based on my reading, either a Colt 1903 or similar FN was John M Brownings favorite shooting pistol. Since he designed so many great firearms and could have owned and shot just about anything, who am I to dismiss John M. Browning favorit shooting gun as not being up to snuff. Maybe that is why it was good enough for generals.

Old Griz · « **Reply #58 on:** July 14, 2004, 08:57:39 AM »

:cb2: And also most generals are usually so far away from danger that they never have to shoot a gun anyway!

Sorry about the hot button. You can shoot at planes with a .32 (or a .357 BH) all you want. I was just saying that someone smart enough to be a general, outta be smart enough to use something bigger. I would and I sure ain't that smart! Especially when your target has machine guns and is firing them at you! Don't get hot--have fun!