Author Topic: 358 Winchester (Read 2066 times)

Jay HHI6818 · « **on:** April 21, 2004, 04:19:35 PM »

Loacl gun store has a used 14 inch Contender barrel chambered in 358 Winchester. I have never seen or knew that TC chambered this round. Any one know what year these barrels were made.

Nobade · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2004, 04:34:22 PM »

TC didn't chamber them in .358 it's either from a custom maker or a rechamber. And I certainly wouldn't fire factory .358 ammo in one, though with reduced handloads it should work quite well, basically would be a 358 JDJ equivalent.

Robert · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2004, 05:15:58 PM »

I have a .356 Winchester, and I load it to 358 JDJ data like Nobade suggested. NO MAN COULD ASK MORE FROM A PISTOL.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2004, 04:12:43 AM »

Robert, the .356 Win. has a fair bit less capacity than the .358 JDJ does. So if you are using MAX loads for the .358 JDJ in your .356 Win. you are likely loading to .358 Win. pressures or higher. Not good for long life of frames or you.

GB

Robert · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2004, 01:20:03 PM »

52.0 grs of 2520 won't even fit into the case. I use 50.0 and it seems to handle it fine.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** April 25, 2004, 11:07:08 AM »

Robert, I suspect that's too much in the .356 Win. case in a Contender. Would maybe be OK in an Encore. What bullet are we talking about? Have you chrono'ed them? If so what velocity are you getting?

As best as I can recall I think I stopped at 50 or 50.5 grains in my .358 JDJ with the Speer 220 as well as both of the Nosler 225s. The PT gave the highest velocity at 2300 fps followed by the BT at 2268 fps and the Speer a bit less at a tad under 2250 fps.

If you are using either of those bullets in the much smaller .356 Win. case I have to believe you are running pressures way higher than I was. JD lists 2250 fps with the Speer 220 as a max load. Generally speaking when you reach the velocity of a given book load in your barrel you should expect the pressures to also be about equal. So if you exceed that velocity MOST LIKELY you are also going higher in pressure.

There is just no reliable indicator of pressure to tell you when you've reach all that is safe. If you go beyond that point at some time you will eventually reach a catastrophic failure point. Take it from someone who has survived blowing up a TC barrel, it is NOT FUN.

GB

Robert · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2004, 07:35:04 PM »

Hmmm, I am looking at data here. Why would 358 JDJ loads for Contender exceed 356 and 358 Winchester loads for rifles? Pressures for 356 and 358 Winchester are over the pressure limits for a Contender. The loads I was looking at for 358 JDJ show a maximum of 52.0 grs of 2520 with 225 bullets. My Accurate manual lists 220 gr bullets with 46.5 grs 2520 for 356 Winchester at 2404 fps. That's pretty damned high. I think I need to pull some bullets.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** April 26, 2004, 04:41:46 AM »

Robert, the .358 JDJ case is a much larger case than either the .356 Win. or the .358 Win. The .356 Win. case has the smallest capacity of the three. For sure you CANNOT safely use either .358 JDJ or .358 Win. loads in a .356 Win. even in a rifle and in a TC Contender it is even more imperitive that you do not. That is why few honest and knowledgeable gunsmiths will chamber a Contender barrel for either the .356 or .307 Win. rounds. Even at factory levels it really is too much pressure and so are book loads for it.

I'm not sure if a .358 JDJ reamer will fully clean out a chamber or not but if so you could have SSK do that and then you'd have safe and tested load data available.

Baring that I'd likely consider book starting loads to be near max in the Contender for the round and make sure you use powders that can be loaded a bit lighter than book recommendations safely. Some powders are not good choices for light loading as that too seems to run up pressures.

GB

flintlock54 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2004, 10:21:49 AM »

I own a 356 Winchester 20" custom carbine contender barrel with 1-14" rifle twist. It was never my intention to load the barrel to 356 win, 358 B****, or 358 JDJ. It was by initial thought to just use the wonderful 356 Winchester brass. It beats the hay out of 35 Remington rimless brass or having to form 444 Marlin brass. 356 Winchester brass is plentiful, thicker, and uses standard 358 Win dies. Win Win! The load data I use is just a little warmer than 35 Remington load data. Wish that was true with the 444 marlin .358 wildcats.

Hornady 180 grain SSP
44 Grains Varget
2160 FPS

Hornady 200 grain RN
44 Grains Varget
2000 FPS

Both loads were freshly checked this morning with my Oehler Chronograph. Both can shoot flies at 100 yds. Specially fond of the RN load. The top Varget load for 35 Remington and 180 grain bullet, is 40.5 grains. As you can see based on GB's comments, it does not take much more powder in the 356 Win case to equal 358 JDJ velocities. Keep in mind my barrel is 20".

Special Note:

IAW: Ken Howell Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges

Water capacity:

358 JDJ = 94 grains

356 Win = 85 grains

358 Win = 80 grains

35 Rem = 72 grains

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2004, 06:43:02 PM »

Used as you say you do yours the .356 Win. is one super round for the Contender. I tried to get one so chambered for myself and offered all sorts of fancy names for it other than what it was to prevent anyone from just assuming it could use .356 Win. ammo in case I ever let it go. No reputable gunsmith I spoke with would touch such a rechamber job. All I wanted from it was a wee tad more than .35 Rem. velocity and I do mean a wee tad more.

GB

Jay HHI6818 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2004, 05:06:04 PM »

Stopped in the shop last week and asked to see the barrel. It started out life as a 35 Remington and was rechambered to 358 Winchester.

cbagman · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2004, 08:34:55 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Robert, the .356 Win. has a fair bit less capacity than the .358 JDJ does. So if you are using MAX loads for the .358 JDJ in your .356 Win. you are likely loading to .358 Win. pressures or higher. Not good for long life of frames or you.

GB

That is a fact and for sure. Read and heed, as this man is a good resource.. I recently got a .356 Winchester chambering on a 14 inch T/C barrel that was done by Mike Bellm so long ago he can't or won't admit to remembering it and the chamber and die was shortened about .060 so as to not load factory rounds and the reloader would do well to never go past 90% of the listing charge weight. These pistols are not stout enough to do this otherwise. I plan to keep all my fingers and both eyes till the organ doner time comes..If you want a magnum then get one. cbagman