would like some prices on the following...

[kevin.303]

could some one tell my the average US price on the following machine guns?

Bren
Vickers
Lewis

 sorry i don't have any model numbers but if after fully functional good condition items.

[patm41]

Full auto transferable ( legal)  restored or original you are looking at $20,000.00 or better..
some of these are available as semi autos  $3000.00 to $5000.00

[Robert357]

I guess I find it odd that somewhat from the great North is asking about machine guns, or class 3 firearms.  I always thought your firearms laws were much more strict than those in the US.  Go figure?

Here in the states, true machine guns may not be owned in many states, like mine in Washington State, without extreme proving of necessity (i.e. you manufacture or repair them as a business or are in some form of law enforcement.)  In other states if you go through the lengthy background checks and pay all the federal and local taxes to keep track of the machine gun, they can be privately owned.  

There are many types of semi-automatic firearms that "look" like a machine gun, and can be purchased if one goes through the federal firearms background check.   Many of these firearms have been modified based on very strict BAFT regulations so that they can not be converted to fully automatic fire.    Furthermore there are military "re-enactors" who have inert repricas of "machine guns."    

Actually there is a very controversial piece of federal legislation in the US that cuts to the heart of this.  It is the Assault Weapons Ban.  From a technical standpoint Assault Weapons have the capability of fully automatic or burst fire (one trigger pull =  multiple bullets fired).  The Assault Weapons Ban is a piece of federal legislation that is about to sunset that was designed to prevent people from owning firearms that "looked like military weapons" and large capacity magazines.  Machine guns will not become common place this fall when the bill sunsets as all of the other laws and federal Class 3 tax and transfer requirements will remain.

Have fun up in Canada!

P.S. the minimum age for purchasing/transfering a Class 3 firearm under federal regulations is 21 and you indicated that you are 20.  I am pretty sure you also have to be a US citizen.  As such, I don't think you will be able to purchase a "true machine gun" in the US.  I am 55 and can't in my state.

[kevin.303]

actually i'm planning on moving to arizona in the next few years and start  collecting canadian service weapons from 1867-1967. i think i've seen the bren in full auto for cheaper then 20,000. maybe i'll only by one instead of all three but which one? :?

[lindylars]

actually i'm planning on moving to arizona in the next few years and start  collecting canadian service weapons from 1867-1967.

Why limit yourself to just one century of "dominion-hood"? Or will this just be a jump-off point, so to speak?

i think i've seen the bren in full auto for cheaper then 20,000. maybe i'll only by one instead of all three but which one? :?

Of the three choices given and (this is a very BIG assumption) I had the legal means for acquisition (i.e. funds, legal paperwork, desire, etc), I'd go with a Lewis simply because of personal taste. By the way Kevin, for the price of just one of these items, you could amass a VERY NICE collection of almost every other service firearm in the period you quoted (heck, you could start a very nice US collection on the side too). If the Class III legal paper trail (which I highly advise that you adhere to) and funding is not going to be an issue for you, then hats off to you my man and put me down on your guest list once you've got things going...  :grin:

Regards,
Ron

PS. One more thing, some pieces of friendly advice on starting your collection:

1. Do your research up front so that you know exactly (within reason) what you are looking at -- nothing better for a younger collector than to "intelligently" converse with an older collector even when what they have is outside of your area of concentration.

2. Whenever you can, go for quality and not quantity (the numbers will take care of themselves over time, trust me).

3. Don't stay too focused/tunnel-visioned on your particular area because you never know when you may come across something totally outside your area, but is otherwise a very good buy. Worse case you'll walk away with something well suited for trading with other collectors who might have something more in line with your interests. While hunting for Krags in Wyoming about 10 years ago I came across an absolutely mint 71/84 Mauser for less than what a Yugo SKS costs today.

4. This should be a no-brainer, but here goes -- respect other collectors' stuff as you would have them respect your most valuable piece. If you handle the "old codger's" 03A3 Smith-Corona like a mint/unissued M1-C Garand, then he might just be willing to part with that L1A1 that you fancy.

5. Lastly, stay honest with yourself and especially with other collectors. The word gets around, and in the collecting business, you want the right words attached to your name. Next thing you know, things are showing at your doorstep that were referred to you by a fellow collector.

[Mikey]

kevin.303:  you've received some excellent advice regarding the questions you have posed but there are a couple of points I would like to make.

First: This forum primarily deals with the bolt action and semi-auto battle rifles of yesteryear with a few healthy sprinkles of modern day AK-47 and M-16 information added to flavor the forum.  Your questions relate to fully automatic battle weaponry from the First and Second World Wars.  You may be able to receive some more detailed and necessarily specific information from the Self Defense and Exotic Weaponry Forum just down the line and you may wish to post your questions there.

Second: You are a Canadian citizen who is 20 years old.  The age requirements for ownership of such firearms is at least 21 years of age for citizens of the United States of America.

Third: You can not expect to simply pack up and move to the State of Arizona in the United States of America and begin the purchase of fully automatic weapons.  It is simply not allowed and most certainly not as easily accomplished as some may make it sound.  

Fourth:  You must be a citizen of the United States of America, and a resident in good standing in the State in which you reside (defined by State Statute), with possible cause or need to own, before you can even think about applying for a Class 3 (fully automatic) Firearms license.

Fifth:  You must apply for citizenship and become an American citizen before you can own such weapons and I believe the 'Naturalization' process takes at least five full years.  That means you have a long way (at least 6 years by my count) to go before you can even start thinking about purchasing one of those weapons.  

Sixth:  There is a real question as to whether a Canadian Citizen can import his/her personal firearms into this country before he/she has become a citizen.  That may mean that you would have to forego or leave behind your current collection of mil-surps before you even enter this country.

There are also a number of legal issues that you would have to research before you make the final decision to relocate, including your Canadian citizenship status.  

You have much to think about beyond the current urge to own a different class of firearms and I would counsel you strongly to consider the points I have raised before making any final decisions, especially regarding what you seek to own.  This translates directly to 'may possibly be able to own' - the United States Government may deny you the right to own a fully automatic firearm and you need to consider that possiblity too: that you may forego your home of origin and relocate only to be denied what you desire so badly.  I'm certain there is an ancient Greek term for that sort of tradegy but at this hour it escapes me.

Think about what you ask and what you seek.  The Golden Fleece may already be beyond your reach.  Mikey.

[kevin.303]

believe me mikey, i know its more than a simple case of packing up and moving. the gun issue aside though there are other motives i have for moving south as well so i would still probably go anyway(see my post in western big game hunting) one career option i'm looking at is law enforcement. i figure join a force up here do that for a few years and then see if it would be possiable to join a US department. i don't know if it could work that way or not. i know i would need a trade that is in demand to get immigrant status and another 3 years to become a citizen.if i can't own full auto i guess i'll just go with the semi-auto versions, not a big deal but up here i would never even have a chance to touch one, let alone own one.

lindylars, i choose that time period because most of the service rifles & all of the pistols used i can already own and purchase right now. and this is not a collection i qwould expect to come together overnight, i would hope to be almost complete by the age of 40, and thats probably unrealistic.

here's a list of what i have in mind so far( with one or two mistakes);

RIFLES
Pattern 1853 Enfield( i would assume ,but not sure)(replica $600)
Snider-Enfield (?)
Martini-Henry/Martini-Enfield)$ 800)
Lee-Metford($ 750)
Lee-Enfield No.1 MK 1 long lee($ 700)
Lee-Enfield No.1 MK 3 SMLE(free/ $ 200)
Ross straight pull($100-$1000)
Lee-Enfield No.4 MK 2($150-$250)
FN-FAL(?)
M-16/C7(?)


PISTOLS
Webley MK 1($400)
Enfield No.2($400)
Colt M1911A1(original ww1 issue $?)
Browning .38 revolver(issued to aircrew, can't find much info)
Browning Hi-Power($600?)

 these are prices i've seen at gunshows and dealers

thats all i can think of for now, i'm all ready starting on the bolt actions by restoring my grandfathers 1917 BSA No.1 MK 3 to as issued appearance. hardest part is finding a WW1 bayonet with the hooked guillion(not made after 1913)

one of my bigget problems is keeping on track and not grabbing anything that seems like a good deal. i almost grabbed a 6.5 arisaka for $40 last summer until i realized i would have a very hard time finding ammo. i went back to get it with the intention of reaming it to .260 rem but it was gone by then. same story with a mint unissued jungle carbine for $200. bought a parker & hale instead and when i went back for the No.5 it was already gone, the story of my life.

[Mikey]

kevin.303 - I don't see why experience in Canadian law enforcement would not be considered appropriate experiences for applying for law enforcement employment here in the US.  I seem to remember a television series a few years back about a Mountie who got assigned to the Chicago PD for a while.  

I think the one aspect of Canadian law enforcement experience we would have to get used to here is the generally higher level of courtesy we hear you folks enjoy.  Eh?  Mikey.

[kevin.303]

Due South was the show. if i remember he was a mountie on loan from the Canadian consulate with his pet wolf Diefenbaker. i've never had a bad run in with the law but i now here when they pull you over for a traffic check here they don't approach the car with a pistol aimed at your head.

a more current issue regarding my collection is a browning hi-power. the Canadian Armed Forces is looking at replacing them within the next few years. what surprised me is they are all 1944-1945 inglis production!(no, i did not misspell "english", inglis is a canadian appliance maker who also made bren's during the war) perfect for my collection but the chances of them being sold as surplus is slim to none. the government won't let us own any of those evil magazines that hold more then 10 rounds.

[lindylars]

If I was ever going to own a 9mm, I've always been torn between getting a Hi-Power or a Glock 17. A P-08, or a P-38 would be nice but let's not go there since I'm not really a 9mm kinda guy nor am I a German kinda guy...any comments/recommendations on the Hi-powers?

[Will Bison]

Aside from the above stated hurdles, most of which are crossed by the passage of time, you appear to have some realistic goals.

As to the citizenship issue, you might consider service in the US Armed Forces. I was an Officer in the Recruiting service for several years and still have a fair recollection of the rules. Under certain circumstances legal aliens may join the US military. Some advantages are that it shortens the waiting period to 3 years instead of 5, gives you one hell of a good employment record, military service is a major consideration for law enforcement jobs. A review of the various web sites may give you more current information, I've been retired for ten years.

Legal ownership of full auto guns starts with the "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" in your locale. Some will sign anything put on their desk while others flat refuse. I am fortunate in that my Sheriff and former Sheriff have always been strong proponents of the 2nd amendment.

As to the money issue; machine guns are expensive but they continue to appreciate. It's hard to lose money on them.

Good luck.

[kevin.303]

i have thought of being a game warden as well as considering military service but i have a few health issues one is i'm as big as a house which i'm working at changing with proper diet and excercise. the other is i have badly injurred my knees a number of times in the past few years. most recently i pulled a 500 lb gunsafe over on my self at work last year and was rewarded with 2 weeks of workers comp. there are certain places where just lightly touching them sends enough pain down my legs to double me over. at the current moment that alone would probably fail me on a phyiscal and might come back to haunt me later on. i might have to take up a trade that doesn't interest me like computer technician(ugghh!) or something like that. not slamming anyone who is a comp tech it's good money, i'm just not that interested in them. then there's my high school marks that i barely passed on. i figure wait a few years, get in better health and go back to school when my marks won't matter as much, then go form there