Author Topic: Kel-Tec  (Read 1506 times)

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Offline Old Griz

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« on: July 05, 2004, 06:03:56 PM »
:cb2: Have only seen them through the glass in the store. Never fired one, or seen one at the range. What's you opinion on the reliability, handling, and and accuracy of these little .32/.380s?
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Offline patm41

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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2004, 12:41:46 AM »
there neat small pistols yes, my dealer sells alot of them but also sends alot of them back to the factory for repair... biggest complaint is the mag will pop out ... not a good thing to happen if you really need to use it..

Offline Savage

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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2004, 04:30:54 PM »
I have owned 5 kel tecs. Still own 4 of them. Only problem I have had is an assembly pin backing out on my P-3AT. It is currently in Florida being rebuilt. For my money, they are the best bargan out there for deep concealment. If you have problems with a kel tec, their customer service is said to be the best in the business.
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Offline dovetailthis

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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2004, 05:02:50 PM »
I have been holding one on my person for 2 years now and love it. I got the optional clip that mounts to the gun so I wouldn't need a holster.  I carry it inside my waste band just like I do my pocket knife with the clip on it. This method is very hard to see and I have noticed while being frisked by night club people that if I had the gun on me they wouldn't have found it anyway. I have never carried it into a place like that as it is illegal in my state but I know that it wouldn't have been found. This kind of carry desn't print much and I can even go without a shirt and most people wouldn't see it. It has a tendency to work its way loose and fall down my pants leg so you have to adjust it when you stand up and make sure it is seated well.  This kind of carry does wear a hole in your pants with time. They need to be reinforced with a patch or something like that to sturdy up this area between your back pockets.

I have had some jams with the gun. Mostly when it was new the first 50 rounds were bad. I buffed the entrance ramp on the barel to allow the shell go in easier and a cycled the action with lubrication alot. After this the gun has done really well. I now get very few jams that are most likely caused by a weak wrist. I keap the mag loaded with hydrashocks and they fire right every time... but and this is HUGE. Hydrashocks can and do have rim slips inside the magazine. I find this to be the worst possible malfunction possible. This rimslip is where the rim of the top shell goes behind the rim of the shell under it. This makes ejection of the shell  and loading of a fresh round impossible.  To correct the problem you must remove the magazine and press down on the stuck shell, then you have to stick something like a ball point pin into one of the holes in the magazine to hold down the lower shells and take the pressure from the spring off of the top shell. then you can manually push the jamed shell out. Basically if this happened in a life or death situation you would die. (unless you solved the problem with your first shot)

This rim slip is due to the shorter length of the hydrashock. If you use normal ball ammo in the magazine you won't have this problem. I still use the hydrashock but a check the magazine pretty frequently to make sure no shell has slipped.

All in all I love my .32 it shoots accurately and points very well. I had one of the highest scores in my class with it when I qualified for my permit. And that was against some guns that should have blown me out of the water... I credit my victory on others poor marksmanship skills. This little gun kicks pretty good. You have to train your wrist to hold strong and it is tolerable. You aren't going to want to put more than 100 rounds through it in a day.

I plan on trading my .32 in for a .380 even though it has one less shell and  is a little harder to hold onto I think that the added power is a good trade.


Hope that helps with your decision.

Aaron

Offline twodollarpistol

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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2004, 01:46:18 AM »
I have carried a P32 for over a year and I love it. It is with me when always, even it is not practical or possible to carry anything else. Very easy to conceal. It is not the best choice for a S D pistol but it sure beats nothing, or my .45 back in the truck. A friend had the mag falling out problem with his. Sent it back and received excellent service. He determined the cause of this was the little projection that retains the mag is made of polymer and the sharp edge of the mag when it is slammed in, cut it off. Now he , and I , just hold the release button in while inserting the mag. Also if you go to WWW.KTOG.ORG you will find out how to eliminate the rim lock problem by modifying the mag. Bunches of other good info as well. All in all a great little pistol and a lot of peace of mind for not a lot of money.  :D
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Offline jimmyp50

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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2004, 03:16:32 AM »
I owned the 9 mm once several years ago.  The trigger stopped resetting after a shot and had to be pushed forward after each shot.  After it was fixed by the factory I sold it.  Every day I read about people having to send these guns in for factory rework.  Life is about "the odds", I would not go over niagara falls in a barrel for $1.0M as the chance of me getting to spend any of that money would be pretty slim.  The "odds" of getting a poor S&W J frame are a lot lower in my opinion.  The old adage, don't scrimp on parachutes, life jackets, or guns applies here but with a different twist. Don't bet your life on something that has a failure rate higher than something else.  Sure I know that several on this forum has one of these guns and they have fired over a billion rounds without a problem, that is great news, but if you look around there are a lot of people who have had problems and returned the guns to the factory.  So what are the "odds" that once you shoot it 200 times, it fails on you, you then send it back to the factory you get it back and it has not failed but 3-4 times during your last 5 range outings that it will serve it's intended purpose?  Good enough for some I guess. Personally I prefer a five shot wheel gun to a single shot automatic.  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.....That all said, I would TRY another one if they offered a higher quality model, albeit at a higher price with some sort of performance test on the model proving it worked for 1000 rounds without a failure...giving the devil his due, they are slim, lightweight, and compact..........Jimmyp
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Offline Savage

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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2004, 03:59:50 AM »
Bought two of the P-32s when they first came out. I bought 500rds of S&B FPFMJ and shot both of them extensively. Had a few failures to fire with the hard primers, but no malfunctions after the initial range session and a good clean and lube with a little polishing in the friction areas. I traded one of the .32s for my current P-3AT. The other one is still carried by my wife. Unlike Chris and some of the other P-32 owners, I never experienced any rimlock problems. Wish I had kept my P-32 for a spare!
I have two P-11s as well. Both have been flawless. Excellent car/carry guns! Thinking real hard about buying another one.
I love my P-3AT.
Savage
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Offline twodollarpistol

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Re: Keltec
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2004, 06:34:20 AM »
Quote from: jimmyp50
I owned the 9 mm once several years ago.  The trigger stopped resetting after a shot and had to be pushed forward after each shot.  After it was fixed by the factory I sold it.  Every day I read about people having to send these guns in for factory rework.  Life is about "the odds", I would not go over niagara falls in a barrel for $1.0M as the chance of me getting to spend any of that money would be pretty slim.  The "odds" of getting a poor S&W J frame are a lot lower in my opinion.  The old adage, don't scrimp on parachutes, life jackets, or guns applies here but with a different twist. Don't bet your life on something that has a failure rate higher than something else.  Sure I know that several on this forum has one of these guns and they have fired over a billion rounds without a problem, that is great news, but if you look around there are a lot of people who have had problems and returned the guns to the factory.  So what are the "odds" that once you shoot it 200 times, it fails on you, you then send it back to the factory you get it back and it has not failed but 3-4 times during your last 5 range outings that it will serve it's intended purpose?  Good enough for some I guess. Personally I prefer a five shot wheel gun to a single shot automatic.  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.....That all said, I would TRY another one if they offered a higher quality model, albeit at a higher price with some sort of performance test on the model proving it worked for 1000 rounds without a failure...giving the devil his due, they are slim, lightweight, and compact..........Jimmyp


That may all be true but I generally don't trust my life or anything else to what I hear or read. I do however trust my own experiences, and my experiences have all been good with MY Kel-Tec. Never failed in any way. I do have a S&W model 60 I, that would be a disgrace to anyone. Been back to Smith twice---still shaving lead. don't want another one. My best friend is having nightmares with a P O  LDA. And that is in no way a cheap piece. Don't try to sell him another one. So cost alone is no guarantee of reliability. That is what is so good about living in a relatively free society. If you don't like something, nobody is going to force you to buy it. So if you don't trust Kel-Tec---don't buy one. Problem solved. I will not be able to convince you they are good guns. Your opinion is already formed. You wont convince me they are not good---same reason. Also B T W you cant put a J frame in the space you can a P 32. Thats why I always have it in my right front pocket, whether I have one of my larger weapons or not. That is the true beauty of the thing, you can ALWAYS have it with you no matter what the weather or mode of dress. And that is better than nothing.
 Just one other thought...One can never plan or prepare well enough to protect oneself from the " what if's ' that you can come up with. We just do the best we can.
J M H O   Respectfully
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Offline Stan_TheGunNut

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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2004, 01:57:17 PM »
Hi, I recently bought a keltec p-32, and so far I'm not impressed.  It is a jamomatic.  I initially attributed all the problems to the cheap ammo I bought to run through it, because each shot sounded different.  I have since cleaned and lubricated it, and run several different brands of ammo through it.  I rarely get through a magazine without a FTF.  I am also have a lot of problems with rim lock.  I do plan on shooting it a lot more, to see if it improves any.  So far I've put 150-200 rounds through it, give or take.  Recoil isn't bad...but after about 40 rounds, I notice it rubbing against the area between my thumb and forefinger.  

As for carry...I guess if you're on the beach, it beats throwing sand.

Stan
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Offline jimmyp50

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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2004, 02:06:46 PM »
well 2 dollar, carry what you want.  Statistically speaking however I would be highly surprised if out of 100 guns each from Keltec and S&W that there were not more failures among the Keltec brand than among the S&W revolver brand.  Yep we can both point to how wonderful or how poor an individual example of some gun is, but if you read anything at all  you read more about Keltec problems than Smith revolver problems.  Like I said you are one of the lucky ones who has shot hundreds of rounds thru his gun with nary a problem. I guess "fluff and buff" is just some superstitious practice that Keltec owners dreamed up to keep themselves busy with their project pistols.   As far as carrying the Smith titanium airweight I use one of those Clipdraw devices and I carry the gun wearing gym shorts and a tank top T shirt.  It is not legal in Georgia to carry in your pocket as must not be the case where you live. At any rate the guns look cheap to me, and I had one fail on me, that was enough.  I would try another if they came out with an upgraded model.  I also have read a lot about problems regarding P.O. and the LDA. Would not own one of those either. All the short guns that I own are the ones left after getting rid of those that did not.  If I get even one jam of any type out of an automatic I start thinking about selling it to someone with lower standards than I have.   Jimmyp
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Offline volshooter

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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2004, 12:47:23 PM »
Bought a .380 KelTec in Knoxville ($229) this weekend. It is not my first KT. I love this little back pocket pistol! I shot about 150 rounds through it and hitting a coke can at 15 feet is surprisingly frequent from this tiny one. The trigger pull is long but not near as bad as the .40 or .9mm I've owned. Mine does not like Wolf ammo but digest WW or Georgia Arms HP's without any hitch at all. My only complaint is I should have bought two. My wife will soon be toting this one in her purse. I think this KT fills a void in carrying.
Rick

Offline Ron T.

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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2004, 06:51:48 PM »
I just posted this answer in the forum above this one, but it's also appropriate here.  Here's what I wrote about my Kel-Tec P3AT:

Dovetail…

I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 ACP loaded with 7 rounds of +P hollow points that have 221 ft/lbs of muzzle energy in a “package” almost exactly the SAME SIZE as the Kel-Tec P-32  you carry, and from which the P3AT was designed.

I had heard some “scary stories” about the lack of reliability of a good many small pistols including the P3AT and decided to make my own tests of the small, but relatively powerful semi-automatic pistol.

For EVERY individual test over the three times I went to the range with the Kel-Tec P3AT, I “worked” the slide to put a live round in the chamber from the magazine, then removed the magazine and added another round to the top of the then full magazine to insure the magazine’s full spring tension was put on the top round so that if it was EVER going to jam, EACH shot would be a “maximum test”.

The first time I went to the range, the Kel-Tec jammed three times (failed to chamber a round which got “stuck” half way into the chamber) and “stove-piped” twice in 125 rounds.  However, I must say that I was using aluminum cased Blazer .380 ammo… and my Kel-Tec didn’t seem to like the Blazer ammo very much.

The 2nd time out, using PMC brass-cases ammo, it “stove-piped” twice (failed to fully eject and dropped the empty, fired case down onto the top of the loaded round in the top of the magazine thus jamming the slide “open”) in 100 rounds, mostly at the beginning of shooting the 100 rounds.  Again, I’d fire only one round, then remove and refill the magazine to full capacity after each shot to insure maximum spring pressure against the round in the top of the magazine.

The 3rd time out, the little pistol functioned flawlessly while shooting 140 rounds, the last 35 rounds of which were first, 25 rounds of aluminum-cased Blazer ammo and, last, 10 rounds of +P hollow-points.  I also noted that the slide on the P3AT was considerably smoother and easier operating after shooting the first 225 rounds on the two previous trips to the range.

Drawing from my experience, I’d suggest that a minimum of 250 rounds be put through any new Kel-Tec P3AT as “break-in” rounds.  After that, an additional 100 rounds with BRASS cartridge cases should be fired through the pistol without ANY malfunctions to insure it’s proper operation during any possible emergency.

On page 3 of the P3AT’s instruction manual, it sez that +P rounds CAN be used on a LIMITED basis.

Since this small, light & handy little pistol is my daily carry gun, I don’t expect to be shooting more than 50-100 rounds a year through the pistol since I have determined it is going to function properly under any conditions.

Many of my friends have asked me why I choose to carry the Kel-Tec P3AT when I have over a dozen more powerful pistols from which to choose.  I can only point out that it’s very small size and extremely light weight plus it’s relatively powerful caliber make it the best of all compromises in a “carry” handgun.

Naturally, I’d MUCH prefer to have the fire-power of one of my Colt 1911A1’s in .45 ACP together with the cartridge capacity of the 18 round after-market magazine in my Ruger P-89PD in 9x19 (9mm Luger), the pure brute force of my .44 magnum or the deep penetration of my .357 magnum.  However, since I often have to “carry” the pistol all day, the lack of heavy weight or large size makes the P3AT my BEST “compromise” choice.

Incidentally, the Kel-Tech P3AT has a life-time warranty for the original owner’s use if needed.  Now how can you beat that?  You might consider it for replacement of your P-32.


Strength & Honor…

Ron T
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Old Griz

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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2004, 09:40:49 PM »
:cb2: A "life-time warranty" doesn't impress me anymore. I have another brand that advertises a "life-time warranty," and when it costs $25 to send it in time, after time, after time, (a) you've spent far more than the lemon was worth, and (b) you never will trust that gun to function properly when you need it to.
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Offline twodollarpistol

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Re: Keltec
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2004, 12:23:05 AM »
Quote from: jimmyp50
well 2 dollar, carry what you want.  Statistically speaking however I would be highly surprised if out of 100 guns each from Keltec and S&W that there were not more failures among the Keltec brand than among the S&W revolver brand.  Yep we can both point to how wonderful or how poor an individual example of some gun is, but if you read anything at all  you read more about Keltec problems than Smith revolver problems.  Like I said you are one of the lucky ones who has shot hundreds of rounds thru his gun with nary a problem. I guess "fluff and buff" is just some superstitious practice that Keltec owners dreamed up to keep themselves busy with their project pistols.   As far as carrying the Smith titanium airweight I use one of those Clipdraw devices and I carry the gun wearing gym shorts and a tank top T shirt.  It is not legal in Georgia to carry in your pocket as must not be the case where you live. At any rate the guns look cheap to me, and I had one fail on me, that was enough.  I would try another if they came out with an upgraded model.  I also have read a lot about problems regarding P.O. and the LDA. Would not own one of those either. All the short guns that I own are the ones left after getting rid of those that did not.  If I get even one jam of any type out of an automatic I start thinking about selling it to someone with lower standards than I have.   Jimmyp


Fluff and buff is something I read about people doing to every conceivable type and brand of firearm you can think off. Just read some of these forums. People are trying to improve all of them and make them more reliable.  I also live in Georgia, and it is absolutely legal to carry in your pocket if you have a permit and it is in some type of holster, which mine is. You might want to go to wwwpacking.org to brush up on your gun laws.

Ga Code 16-11-126
 " firearms may only be carried in a shoulder holster, waist belt holster, ANY OTHER HOLSTER, hip grip, or any other similar device, in which event the weapon may be concealed by the persons clothing"
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Offline greenjeans

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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2004, 01:42:09 PM »
I've often wondered why when a high dollar gun fails out of the box it either needs broken in or a better magazine. When a lower dollar gun does the same thing it needs to be trashed.
Romans 8:38,39

Offline twodollarpistol

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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2004, 12:13:31 AM »
Quote from: greenjeans
I've often wondered why when a high dollar gun fails out of the box it either needs broken in or a better magazine. When a lower dollar gun does the same thing it needs to be trashed.


 :D  Thank you Mr. Greenjeans. I couldnt have said it better myself.
The Lord didnt create anything without a purpose, but mosquitoes come close. :D

Offline Old Griz

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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2004, 06:57:40 AM »
:cb2: Cuz a $250 mistake hurts a lot less than a $600-$800 mistake does! :)
Griz
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Offline Old Griz

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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2004, 08:46:34 AM »
:CB2: Don't know about your end of the state, but if you tried walking down the street with one in your hand, you sure wouldn't get very far! For that matter, open carry would probably have you smelling the sidewalk with your hands cuffed behind you before you had a chance to explain. The only thing we have to brag about here is that we're #2 in the nation in violent crime, and our local Democrats are trying hard to make us #1.
Griz
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Offline volshooter

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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2004, 12:14:43 PM »
Hey Griz, I spend quite a bit of time in Wayne county during hunting season and it is not uncommon to see open carry. Granted it's not a everyday thing but we see several every trip. Here in Jefferson county, few chose to open carry but you do see it without some cops foot in the back of their necks. My dad openly carried his little snub openly for the last 5 years of his life. Oh wait... the dummycrats do control west TN don't they?

From East Tennessee, where Al got his butt kicked, Rick

Offline Old Griz

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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2004, 05:43:21 PM »
:cb2: Unfortunately, that "tool" gets misused far too often here in Memphis. I live on one side of an old established country club golf course, and on the other side is a rough neighborHOOD, that over the years has become 100% . . . ah . . . Democratic. On any given night you can hear the sound of that tool being used, and on weekends, well, it's really wild. So legal or not, I wouldn't blame the MPD for stopping anyone with a visible gun—in hand or holster. On our news tonight they were talking about three separate murders. We never go downtown. Beale Street? Not a chance. Yeah, Memphis is a great city to be from (as in, no longer there). I don't even take the garbage out unarmed.
Griz
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Offline jimmyp50

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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2004, 03:24:39 PM »
You know I just don't get it.  2 dollar and other like Keltec's, I see no problem with that.  As I have said buy and shoot what makes you happy.  I just don't like them.  While some function just fine, some others don't.  I don't like M1A's from Springfield armory either, they cost a lot more money but statistically you have a chance of having to send it back into the factory to have their "lifetime warranty" fix it.  I have nothing against cheap pistols, or really any pistols.  If a Keltec suits your pocket book and your style then have at it.   The only thing I am saying is that the rational man knows that if something is going to break, it is going to break at the worst possible time.  There is probably a good reason why police agencies or government agencies don't use Keltec's, this is just my opinion mind you.  I hope I am not hurting anyone's feelings here.  Another thought, police detectives, did and some still do use 5 shot S&W revolvers as back up pistols or primary pistols.  I guess if they wanted to use keltec's they could, I wonder how many would bet there lives on one? Maybe a dozen or so police officers will chime in here and tell me I am all wet.  Please do not take offence at this but I suspect any pocket automatic that dwells in a pocket full of lint, might just at times not work properly.  Add this to the fact that most small autopistols are not as reliable as their bigger brothers (1911's excluded which are a law unto themselves), and you have to ask how reliable is the pistol going to be when I need it.  For goodness sakes, carry what you want, I will carry a 5 shot Titanium J frame that has never had a break in period, never been "fluffed and buffed", has never jammed, shoots when it is filthy, sweaty, grungy and I can hit a beer can with at 15 feet.  Please do not get me wrong, I am not critical of your decisions, I just am that odd individual that looks at things differently than most people.  Jimmyp
Jimmyp50Georgia