Rem. 1858 converted to 45 LC ??

[Bis]

I had read on another thread that there is a way to convert a cap and ball Remington 1858 ( 44 cal.) to 45 Long Colt by simply replacing the cylinder. There was something about the firing pin (pins) being housed in the cylinder so that there was no modification to the hammer. Is there such a thing and where would I find out about them. Also do they work on all reproduction pistols, I have a Navy Arms 1858 ( vintage early 1970's S/N 122XX). Thanks for any info.

[bigjeepman]

Great question BIS!!! I am wanting to do the exact same thing. Anyone have any answers to this question? That would be one awesome looking .45 lc.

[Flint]

Yes, there are two units available.  One, sold by Taylor Firearms is by R&D, it has a removable backplate that rotates with the cylinder, and has 6 firing pins, one for each.  

The other by Kirst has a non-rotating backplate, so has one firing pin, and has a staggered spacing 5 shot cylinder with one solid "safe" position in the 6th spot.   See River Junction Trading or Ned Buntline.

Both sell for about $250.00.

[3006va]

CAS forum would be a good place to ask this,it is discussed there some.
There are at least two company's that make the conversion but I'm thinking they don't advise this for a brass framed gun.

[Bis]

Flint- do you know if Taylor Firearms, R&D or Kirst have web sites?

3006va- the 1858 is a steel frame. This does not sound like a cheap proposition  :-) .

 Thanks for the info everyone.

[Flint]

The R&D is sold and distributed by Taylors, and no longer has its own website.
The Kirst website has information and descriptions and a list of dealers (websites) to go to, no direct sales.

The Steel framed Remington is the one you want, and both R&D and Kirst warn not to use the converter in a brass framed gun.

The R&D is a simple cylinder swap, a drop-in, no modifications to the revolver are required.  The cylinder is removed to load and unload.

Kirst has two versions, soon three.  One is a drop-in, like R&D except for the single firing pin, non-rotating backplate.  No gun modifuications. Also requiring removal for loading and unloading.

Both the above work like the Remington in Eastwood's "Pale Rider" movie.

The second Kirst is ported, and requires the user to cut a loading port into the breech of the gun, with a rat-tail file and Dremel tool.  This loads with the cylinder in place. (This causes the gun to be "modified" in the eyes of the ATF, for the owner's personal use and cannot be subsequently sold as a cap & ball as it is now a "modern" firearm.)

The third may or may not be available yet, has a loading gate built in to the breech-plate.  (also costs more) Kirst also sells an ejector rod kit for the ported versions.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/index.html

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/safety.html

[Blackhawk44]

Why not just buy a gun show Uberti SAA replica for 45 Colt for very little more?  With the Remi conversion you have a cylinder that costs more than the pistol, that has to be disassembled to reload and can only take lighter than standard loads, that was designed for minute of washtub accuracy at 15 feet.??!!

[Bis]

Flint- thanks for the info. I checked out both sites you listed. It was very interesting. They sure have some neat firearms at the Taylor site, but the conversion cylinders sure do seem pricey. They want $240 for the cylinder or you can get the entire 1858 pistol (cap & ball) for $200, something doesn't seem right. They sure got my mouth watering for their Colt Walker at $275. Thanks again for the info, but I guess I will just keep poring charcoal down the old 1858.

Blackhawk44-Those cap and ball pistoles aren't that bad, I can hit the broad side of my barn, if I am standing inside it  :grin:

[hylander]

Minute of washtub Accuracy ?
FYI:
My 1858 Peitta shoots single hole group's with full house loads.
Every time.

[Flint]

Bis, the cylinders are indeed pricey (but the Eurodollar is rising, see Cimarron's current prices, $365.00 for an Uberti made 1860 or 1858), but they are American made, lower production rate and actually better made and of significantly better steel than the guns they go in.  I consider the gun the throw-away part.....

[Flint]

I agree with Hylander, if you can't keep an Uberti or Pietta Remington in the x-ring at 25-50 ft, it's the shooter's fault.

[Blackhawk44]

I was discussing accuracy at 25-35 yards, not feet.  Yes, with the original cylinder your piece should shoot just fine, but the cartridge cylinders are not known for their accuracy.  Remember that they were designed only to fill the needs of CAS shooters which is something like a 12 inch target at 30 feet, not a cottontail at 30 yards.  Those that I have seen in use come nowhere near comparing to an orginal cartridge pistol.

[Flint]

Blackhawk, I agree at long range, the conversions don't measure up in an Italian cap & ball revolver.  The very slow roundball twist in the rifling can't stabilize the longer heavier 45 caliber bullet.  I shoot 200 gr 45 and I understand the 185 or 165 gr are better. The 38 hollowbase wadcutter is helped by the "arrowhead" effect of the solid nose, but still fails at 50 yds or so. (but so does a lead bullet in a Browning Hi-power).  If one were to reline a 36 to 357 or replace a 44 pecussion barrel with a 45 cal cartridge barrel they would be every bit the equal of a cartridge gun, which, indeed, a Ruger Old Army with a Kirst or R&D cylinder in it is as accurate as a Vaquero.