Author Topic: Round ball vs conical  (Read 1977 times)

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Offline unspellable

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Round ball vs conical
« on: May 19, 2004, 01:49:04 AM »
What's the general opinion on round ball versus conicals?  In my case for the Ruger Old Army.

Offline R.M.

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2004, 05:05:06 AM »
On my first range session with my new ROA, I tried various projectiles, round balls and many different sized .45 slugs. I didn't find anything that shot any better than the old round ball, and I probably don't have to tell you that those round balls go exactly where they're aimed. I've never tried any of those conicals designed especially for the cap and ball gun, but haven't heard any particularly good things about them either. I've stuck with the RB. I cast my own so they're pretty cheap and shoot well. What more could an overgrown middle-aged kid want?javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Laughing

R.M.
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2004, 07:44:50 AM »
Conicals are not accurate,but at close range effective
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a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline filmokentucky

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2004, 09:14:43 AM »
I gave up on conicals in C&B revolvers over 30 years ago. I never could get them to go where I was aiming. Never knew any body else who could, either. Balls on the other hand, are accurate and zip along a whole lot faster. They're cheaper,too.
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Offline HWooldridge

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2004, 10:02:06 AM »
Agreed - conicals are just too difficult to get seated squarely.  A swaged round ball can be placed pretty fast and is always rightly positioned in relation to the chamber.

Offline Gatofeo

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2004, 08:28:11 AM »
I've tried various conical bullets over the past 30-plus years. Never found a design nearly as accurate as a proper-sized lead ball (.454 or .457 in the .44s and .380 in the .36s).
I've tried:
Lyman 37583 - Too long to fit under most rammers and hard to ram straight. Dismal accuracy. I think this bullet was originally meant as a short-range bullet for the .38/55 but is now mostly mentioned as a bullet for the .36 revolver.
Lee conical bullet --- Made to fit under rammer and has a heel to help it enter the chamber. I've tried both the .375 and .380 diameter versions in my .36 calibers. At 25 yards from a benchrest, they usually give 5 or 6-inch groups. From the same benchrest, the round ball will cluster six into 2 inches.
The .380 version of this bullet --- no longer offered by Lee --- will only fit in my Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy's chambers. My Pietta-made Remington Navy and Armi San Marcos copy of the Colt 1862 pocket have chambers that are too small to allow its larger heel to enter.
Lee only makes the .375 diameter of its conical bullet now. If you absolutely must shoot a conical, it's probably the most consistently accurate I've found.
Buffalo Bullet --- Fits under the rammer easily. Lousy accuracy. Don't know why, but in my .36 calibers this bullet was producing groups (or patterns) or 12 inches or more at 25 yards from a benchrest.
Oddly enough, it began to leave a ring of lead at the forcing cone of my Colt 2nd generation when I used the Buffalo bullet. Didn't do it on my two other 36s. Have no idea why. This is the only projectile this revolver has ever leaded with, except the time I cast some balls of wheelweights instead of pure lead, out of curiosity. The harder alloy left leading in the bore, but no ring of lead at the forcing cone. Weird.
Dixie Gun Works --- Duplicate of the conical bullet issued with the 1851 Navy in the Civil War. Base not cut fla. Sprue is nipped off with pliers leaving a slight projection on the base.
This projection doesn't seem to affect the bullet's stability. All holes on the paper target are round and show no evidence of yawing.
Accuracy was typically 5 or 6 inches at 25 yards from a benchrest. Ho-hum. Often, a flier opened the group to 10 inches or more. Interesting historically, but not interesting accuristically (I know it's not a word, but sounds good .. heh).
And I'm not so sure that the conical bullets are more powerful than a lead ball, because of their greater weight. To load a conical, you have to reduce the powder charge to make room for the longer conical bullet.
For example, I regularly shoot 24 grains of Goex FFFG black powder in my 1851 Navy, with greased felt wad between powder and ball.
This gives me about 1,000 feet per second from the Navy's 7-1/2 barrel.
If I use a conical, I usually forsake the greased felt wad and use 18 to 20 grains of powder. I get about 800 to 850 fps, depending on the conical and how much powder has to be sacrificed to make it fit.
I recently picked up a 6-cavity bullet mould on Ebay that casts a short, heeled conical bullet for the .36 caliber. Not one mark on the mould or wooden handles to indicate who made it. Wonderful craftsmanship, though.
Probably made in the 40s or 50s, possibly as late as the early 70s. Hope to cast some conical bullets with it and try it out. It may hold promise. Bullet almost looks like a round ball with a heel. Very short nose on it.
Preliminary measurements of the cavities with my calipers indicate the heel is about .373 diameter and the ball is about .380. Should be a good fit. Of course, a real bullet will be smaller than these rough measurements because of the lead shrinking when cooling in the mold.
Lead balls are easier to buy or make, more accurate, easier to load, more accurate and --- if you want to shoot at a little extra range --- have a higher velocity. Hard to beat these good points.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline 1860

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2004, 12:31:04 PM »
The Bufalow Ballets work very well in my Pietta 58 Rem, can hardly tell the different in groups from the roundballs and both are very tight.  They cost a bunch more but I was using them for hunting and they did the deed..  For general shooting the roundballs are the way to go.

60

Offline AndyHass

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2004, 06:07:26 AM »
I guess my wheelgun is an exception.  I have a Rem 1858 replica (Italian manufactur through Cabelas) and spent 2 years thinking it was a piece of junk as it wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn with the round balls I fed it.  Tried 3 different kinds, slightly different sizes, made no difference.
   Finally I got some Buffalo Ballets and tried them.  Now I can put the whole cylinder into a pie plate at 30 yards, time after time.

Offline Ramrod

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2004, 12:00:25 PM »
Andy, that only says they work best in your gun. I have never got conicals to shoot as well as roundballs in my guns. But, the Ballet is not your typical revolver conical so maybe you are on to something.
That being said, my ancient CVA 1858 will shoot much better than that with roundballs.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline HWooldridge

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2004, 04:11:55 PM »
My 1860 Uberti will shoot 1-2 inch groups at 25 yds with .457 round balls.  The only problem is that the groups are about 18 inches high :grin:

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2004, 04:27:36 PM »
HWooldridge, All the Colts and Colt replicas do this, I think they were sighted for 100 yards. You need a taller front sight. I once soldered a half a penny on my kids 1849 to get it on at 25 yards, it is one sweet little plinker now, about like a modern .22
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline Edgewood NM

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2004, 04:40:07 PM »
Andy, You and I must have got the same lot of guns from Cableas. With round ball .454 and 3o grain Pyrodex pellets my NMA shoots about 4" or so and low and left. With the Lee 200 grain Conical I hit POA at 25 yards. I was a bit leary of using P Pellets with the conicals but this weekend I tried them and the conicals WOW!!! is all I can say. Great accuracy more punch than the FFFg Goex and they make a NICE paper cartradge. Fast loading. But the Lees have done good for me with m Remmie. ROund ball doed move faster and such but I have had my best with the Lee 200grain conical and a P pellet or 27 grains of FFFg Goex powder.
Enemies may come into our country and times will have changed, but then the boys will come down from the old high hills and belt on their guns again.
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Offline scotjute

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Round ball vs conical
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2004, 03:34:36 AM »
I tried the conicals in '51 Navy Pietta.  They were just too difficult to load and to get seated squarely.

Offline Fiveshooter

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Give the 200 grain Lee R.E.A.L. a try
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2004, 04:36:01 PM »
unspellable ,

I have had better results with the .45 caliber Lee R.E.A.L. bullet in the Old Army than any other conical. This bullet was originally meant for a .45 caliber M.L. rifle. The driving band at the base fits the R.O.A. cylinder just snugly and the bands get a bit bigger towards the nose. This bullet is easy to seat squarely in the R.O.A.  Lee makes a round nose bullet mold that was meant for the Old Army but I believe the .45 caliber R.E.A.L. bullet is a better choice. I only use this bullet in my ajustable sighted Old Armies as point of impact will be higher than for a round ball. I have 4 Old Armies that have ajustable sights and in every case I had to install a taller front sight to get this conical to shoot to point of aim. With the factory blade they would all shoot high with the rear sight all the way down. I now have enough elevation ajustment for conicals and R.B. Many people claim they see no improvement in accuracy over a round ball and at 25 yds. they are pretty much equal in the accuracy department. When I shoot at 50 yds or more the above mentioned conical performs better in all my guns. With that being said I still shoot more round balls than conicals. I guess for some reason I think shooting the round balls is easier and more fun for plinking. My little fixed sighted Old Armies are sighted for round balls and will probably never be loaded with conicals.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level then beat you with experience." Not sure who first said this,but it makes sense.
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                   Billy