Saiga Rifles and shotguns

[Oldtimer]

A friend and I were looking in a catalog recently and saw Saiga shotguns and rifles.  I wouldn't mind having a .308, and he is interested in the 20 guage shotgun.  I believe they are built on the AK frame.  They certainly seem cheap enough. Has anyone had any experience with these guns?

[His lordship.]

The American Rifleman had an article a few months ago on the .308 cal. version of the Saiga rifle.  They thought it was a good low priced hunting rifle for close range, but noted that the accuracy drops off when the barrel heats up during extended firing sessions, but for general hunting it would be ok.

The writers of the article and another source pointed out that these guns are being shipped without oil or grease in the inner workings, bone dry, no problem, just strip down the rifle and grease or oil as needed before taking it to the range.  I bought a Russian made SKS years ago that was bone dry too!  I suspected at the time that as this rifle was a reserve gun for emergencies in case of another invasion they wanted it without grease so that it would fire in severly cold weather, like Russia gets.

When it gets extremely cold the grease will jam a semi-automatic, just degrease, and yea, it could wear out the gun faster, but better to have a rifle that shoots in -35 degrees (minus) and still be alive. :-)

[Oldtimer]

Chris,
Thanks for the information.  I have had more problems with guns where grease was gooped over machining chips, than with guns that were dry.  I disassemble any gun I buy to make sure that it is clean on the inside, and don't mind having to lube it up.  I consider the lack of grease a convenience.  I read the AR article and they tested the 16 inch model.  I am planning on getting the 22 inch barrel and it will be interesting to see how that barrel responds to heating. Where I hunt, a second shot is almost impossible, unless you have knocked an animal down and are finishing it.

[Mikey]

Oldtimer:  There was also an article about the Siaga rifles in 308 in the Gun Tests magazine.  The findings of the Gun Test Staff mirrored my own experiences with the Norinco Hunting Model in 7.62x39 with a 21" barrel.  Using open sights both rifles are sufficienetly accurate for field shots to 100 yds.  That accuracy cannot be duplicated with scoped rifles as it is difficult to stabalize the side rail mounts on stamped AK frames and the bolt cover scope mounts cannot be stabalized.  The Saiga (AK) in 308 heats up pretty quickly and your groups become distorted (open up).  In 7.62x39, even while warm, the groups are marginally acceptable (4") at 100 yds when the barrel heats up.  With either a cold gun or one in which I wait a minute between shots for the barrel to cool I can group 2" at 100 yds with my Norinco.

The Saiga/AK action is easy to use and easy to work with but the basics for accurate shooting aren't there.  If you are going to limit your shots to 150 yds you should be able to use the 7.62x39 with satisfaction.  If your shots will be at longer ranges I would advise something else in a different rifle and a different caliber.  Hope this helps.  Mikey.

[His lordship.]

Mikey you answered a question I have had for quite awhile.  I bought a Romanian AK about 3 years ago with the side mounted scope mount.  I wanted to mount a scope and found it was hard to find the right setup, sometimes I would see an expensive one at the gun shows intended more for a Mosin bolt action rifle, or dig around on the internet.

Then I spend the money and put a receiver cover type mount on my SKS.  The 2 mounting screws shook loose, and half the people I talked to had similar problems, others did not.  I put blue locktite on the screws and was ready to go back to the range, but the cheap rings that came with it stripped out really easy, affecting the adjustment for eye distance, etc., about that time I decided to trade the SKS off for other reasons anyways.  So, I never did get the scope to work right :oops:  

In a nutshell, these SKS and AK rifles don't seem to be good for mounting a scope on them.  The difficulty of even finding one for my Romanian AK suggested a big problem as no one was selling them, and I did witness a fellow at the range who was angry with the top receiver type scope mount setup on his AK changing its zero frequently.  He was trying not to swear too much!   :cry:

Thanks for the info on the side mount rail mounts not being stable.

[memphis]

I too have been looking at a couple of the saiga rifles and had a few questions about their accuracy.  I was interested in the .223 version instead of the .308, and was wondering if the same problems existed. Thanks for any help.

                                            Memphis

[strider72]

Ultimak makes a forward scope mount that takes the place of the gas tube and takes red dot and handgun scopes.

[targshooter]

I was interested in a Saiga .308 after reading the American Rifleman article. When I finally looked at the .308 AK spinoff last falll, it was just over $300 instead of about $240 or so. I was not impressed by the fit, finish or handling such that I was willing to part with $300 for one. My opinion, and I would bet they are durable and dependable. Many users have commented on the internet that the factory scope mounts are not dependable for holding a zero. Some of the same users have stated that the rifles are accurate with the factory irons or decent aftermarket scope mounts employed.

[His lordship.]

I bought my Saiga in 7.62 X 39 last December and was limited in comment as I did not know the rifle very well.  After taking it to the range a few times and breaking it in, this gun is nice.  Using the Sellier and Bellot ammo brand it rivals some of my bolt actions in the accuracy department with open sites at 100 yards.  I chose not to put on a scope as there have been criticisms of the lack of stability.

The Saiga is more accurate than my military configuration Romanian SAR-1, or also called Romanian AK-47.  The trigger pull is at 6 lbs, what is odd is the Romanian rifle has a nice crisp American made trigger in it, and yet it is not as accurate as the Saiga with the heavier Russian trigger?!

I went with the 7.62 X 39 caliber as it had many pluses, also the gun cools down fast.  I fire a 10 round clip with a 2 shot burst, check the binoculars, then another 2 shots, etc.  Then let it sit, while I shoot my other AK.

I installed a recoil buffer, and greased/oiled up the interior works well before shooting it.  I have had no malfunctions with either rifle.

[bilesteve]

I haven't tried a scope on my Saiga but it does have the same problem with the barrel heating up and groups getting pretty wide. Seems I can't seem to control my trigger finger. Other than that, it is okay.

[Bama76]

saiga12.com has a forum on it that can help you guys out. It's fun listening though I don't post much on there. I want one real soon, gotta find the funds.

[BattleRifleG3]

I own or have owned 4 of the 6 chamberings of Saiga, and have been very pleased with every one.  I am working on a magazine conversion for G3 mags for the Saiga 308.  My X39 one has been converted to a beautiful p-grip configuration, and the 223 is the lightest recoiling 223 I've ever fired.

I strongly recommend them all.  Any of them will be good for your respective use.