Author Topic: Encore 50 cal ML with 25ACP breech plug. RANGE UPDATE (Read 1875 times)

Redhawk1 · « **on:** July 09, 2004, 02:25:33 PM »

I went to the range today and shot my 50 cal Encore with the new 25ACP breech plug. I used CCI400 Small rifle primers, 2 triple7 pellets and 295 gr. power belts. I shot 3, three shot groups at 25 yards to just test the set up. My groups could all almost be covered by a quarter. I moved out to 50 yards and the gun shot almost identical groups with the same set up. I ran out of time due to shooting other guns, so I will have to go back and move out to 100 yards. I find it extremely easy to install and remove the 25ACP brass, a lot easer than the 209 primer. I shot a total of 30 shots and did not have to clean the barrel once, and accuracy held up. I am very impressed with my results so far.

Arrroman · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2004, 02:58:40 PM »

How much is the conversion? Is it made by T/C?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2004, 03:17:09 PM »

Quote from: Arrroman

How much is the conversion? Is it made by T/C?

It is made by Cecil Epp. Here is his web site. The conversion is 59.95 plus shipping for the 25ACP breech and 12, 25ACP cases. I am not affiliated or work for them or make any money from this product. I am just giving my experience with it. :grin: http://prbullet.com/hornet.htm

crow_feather · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2004, 04:43:31 PM »

Redhawk1
I have to admit that I am curious. Does the case go in and then the pellets get put in afterwards? Does loose powder go in the case or do you use loose powder in this type of ignition? I wonder if powder filling the case doesn't act sort of like a fuse and alter the burning rate of the remaining powder. It sure does promote great accuracy though.

C F

DEPUTY · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2004, 05:01:07 PM »

the 25 acp breach plug replaces the old 209 breech plug, gun is loaded in same fashion as before.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2004, 05:13:34 PM »

Quote from: crow-feather

Redhawk1
I have to admit that I am curious. Does the case go in and then the pellets get put in afterwards? Does loose powder go in the case or do you use loose powder in this type of ignition? I wonder if powder filling the case doesn't act sort of like a fuse and alter the burning rate of the remaining powder. It sure does promote great accuracy though.

C F

crow-feather, The breech plug looks just like the 209 primer breech plug, but is modified to accept a 25ACP case with just a primer installed as ignition. There is no powder in the case. It is just a primed case. The muzzleloader is loaded just like normal and you can use the powder of your choice or pellets. Also the 25ACP can accept small pistol, small pistol magnum,small rifle and small rifle magnum primers. So your load potential is endless.

crow_feather · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2004, 05:23:36 PM »

The flame then has to travel the legnth of the case before it touches powder. I think I would prefer the magnum primers.

C F

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2004, 02:02:53 AM »

I am having good success with the standard rifle primer. I will try the small rifle magnum primes also, just to see if there is any different. But the main reason the new 25ACP breech plug was made, was to get rig of to hot of a primer in the 209 primer. I think that the 209 when fired pushes the powder and bullet forward a little prior to the powder igniting which would give more pressure in the barrel and affect accuracy. That is just my opinion though.

Arrroman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2004, 03:13:00 PM »

I have hunted with the T/C Encore for years and always been amazed at the amount of blowby that gets into the trigger and action. I love the way the gun closes like a vise and there is no way the gun will drop a primer off the breech plug. I did have a little problem with the Remington 700ML losing primers when they first come out. Blowby in the Remington seemed to accumulate inside the bolt along with chunks of #11 primer. If the .25ACP case seals the blowby this is probably a real good way to go.

Good luck hunting!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2004, 04:44:47 PM »

Quote from: Arrroman

I have hunted with the T/C Encore for years and always been amazed at the amount of blowby that gets into the trigger and action. I love the way the gun closes like a vise and there is no way the gun will drop a primer off the breech plug. I did have a little problem with the Remington 700ML losing primers when they first come out. Blowby in the Remington seemed to accumulate inside the bolt along with chunks of #11 primer. If the .25ACP case seals the blowby this is probably a real good way to go.

Good luck hunting!

I did not see any sigh of blowby at all. :grin:

Busta · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2004, 07:30:29 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

I am having good success with the standard rifle powder. I will try the small rifle magnum primes also, just to see if there is any different. But the main reason the new 25ACP breech plug was made, was to get rig of to hot of a primer in the 209 primer. I think that the 209 when fired pushes the powder and bullet forward a little prior to the powder igniting which would give more pressure in the barrel and affect accuracy. That is just my opinion though.

Redhawk1,

I think you may have a typo in your first sentence, I think you meant to say primer instead of powder. Just don't want some newbie thinking that it is OK to shoot smokeless with the 25ACP conversion in an Encore. Just trying to keep it safe. :wink:

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2004, 07:15:14 AM »

Quote from: Busta'yote

Quote from: Redhawk1
I am having good success with the standard rifle powder. I will try the small rifle magnum primes also, just to see if there is any different. But the main reason the new 25ACP breech plug was made, was to get rig of to hot of a primer in the 209 primer. I think that the 209 when fired pushes the powder and bullet forward a little prior to the powder igniting which would give more pressure in the barrel and affect accuracy. That is just my opinion though.

Redhawk1,

I think you may have a typo in your first sentence, I think you meant to say primer instead of powder. Just don't want some newbie thinking that it is OK to shoot smokeless with the 25ACP conversion in an Encore. Just trying to keep it safe. :wink:

I am glad you pointed that out. I changed it. I agree with you 100%. I would not want any one to put the smokeless powder in the encore. :eek:

Vapour · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2004, 10:35:12 AM »

How was the gun shooting before you went to the 25 ACP system? Thanks.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2004, 11:59:03 AM »

I had good groups, good enough for hunting. Around 2 to 2 1/2 inch at 100 yards. I also switched because I like how easy the 25ACP's are to load and unload compared to the 209. I did like the way my Encore shot with my original set up, but I just wanted to try something new. :grin:

smoky · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2004, 09:40:12 AM »

Please let us know how this setup shoots at 100 yards. Also, do you find that its keeping everything cleaner as advertised?

Thanks,

Smoky

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2004, 12:22:08 PM »

I will post results for 100 yards when I get back out to the range.

Like I posted, I shot 30 rounds with triple7 and I was able to remove the breech plug with no problem at all. Also clean up was very easy. I ran a bore snake through barrel 2 times, then ran a patch with bore cleaner, then ran 3 dry patches and bore was clean. I then ran a patch with breakfree and followed it with a patch with bore butter on it. I always put my muzzleloaders away with bore butter in the barrel. I just run a clean patch through them before I shoot.

AndyHass · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2004, 04:28:23 AM »

There is no need for magnum primers...in fact, the new plug was created to make LESS flame. A 209 is a potent primer...My buddy got dumb and forgot to load powder in his Omega, so he put in a cap and fired. He found the sabot more than 20 feet from the muzzle! Clearly, so much power is not needed when the propellant has an ignition temperature only moderately higher than black powder, which can be reliably touched off by flint. I feel they went with 209s since they are conveniently large enough to put in the gun with fingers and no need for primed cases....not because they were shown to perform the best.
I've been considering the conversion for my Omega simply for the ease of priming the gun with cold/gloved hands. Any reduction in blowback and increase in accuracy would be a bonus. Please keep us updated!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2004, 08:19:31 AM »

Once I have done all my tests with the 25ACP conversion in my 50cal. Encore I will post the results here. I am calling to order another 25ACP plug for my sons .45 Cal Encore and see how well I can get it to shoot.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2004, 08:40:50 AM »

Well, I just placed my order for another 25ACP plug for my sons 45 cal Encore. He gave me a good price seeings how I had the 22 Hornet plug and a 25ACP plug already. I will post results with the 25 ACP plug for the 45cal Encore when it gets here. I have not got any good groups with the 45 cal sense I have had it. I have tried several different bullets and sabots. I can't get better than 3 1/2 to 4 inch groups with it at 100 yards. I hope this will help as well as trying so different sabot/bullet combos. I sold the 22 Hornet plug to a poster on GB, but I have not seen any feedback from him on his results.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2004, 01:55:57 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

I will post results for 100 yards when I get back out to the range. Like I posted, I shot 30 rounds with triple7 and I was able to remove the breech plug with no problem at all. Also clean up was very easy. I ran a bore snake through barrel 2 times, then ran a patch with bore cleaner, then ran 3 dry patches and bore was clean. I then ran a patch with breakfree and followed it with a patch with bore butter on it. I always put my muzzleloaders away with bore butter in the barrel. I just run a clean patch through them before I shoot.

Redhawk, Did the 25 ACP conversion eliminate the infamous "CRUD RING" that developes using 777?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2004, 04:41:30 AM »

Are you talking about where the plastic from the power belt sits in barrel? There was a little build up in my barrel where the plastic from the power belt sat in the barrel, I was fairly easy to remove though.

upnorth · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2004, 11:32:33 AM »

I too have had great sucess with the conversion. I shoot at the same range as Cecil, so I get to pick his brain! he truly loves what he does. I have been able to almost eliminate the crud ring. I think that the large flame produced by the 209 primer cooks some of the powder to the bore before enough pressure builds to fire the round, which causes the ring. I too have had no problem seating multiple rounds.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2004, 11:55:19 AM »

Well, I went to the range today and shot both my 45 and 50 cal Encores with the 25ACP conversion. The results for the 45 cal Encore are posted in the T/C Super 45 XR sabots in 155 gr. and 180 gr. XTP Mag bullets post I have here. My son will use the 45 cal Encore, and I will be using the 50 cal Encore for deer season this year.

I move out to 100 yards with my shooting today. I got 1 inch 3 shot groups with 100 gr. two triple7 pellets and 295 gr. power belt bullets and the 25ACP conversion using CCI400 small rifle primers. I had a couple of groups open to 1 1/2 inch. My buddy was with me and he was watching and calling my shots. I shot once and the reloaded and shot again. He said you missed. I said there was no way I missed. I looked through the binos and could see an elongated hole and I told him there was 2 shots almost in one hole. He did not believe me so we took the walk to the target, and sure enough there was 2 shots almost in one hole. :-D We walked back and I reloaded and took a third shot and was about 1 inch above the 2 shot hole. I shot a total of 21 rounds without cleaning the bore and the gun stayed accurate.

Came home and removed the breech plug and no crud ring. Clean up was easy. I am convinced the 25ACP conversion works.

2 Encores and great accuracy and easy clean up in both. :-D

Bullseye · « **Reply #23 on:** August 02, 2004, 06:01:49 PM »

Hope you are right Redhawk, my 25ACP Conversion is in the mail.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 03, 2004, 01:41:21 AM »

Quote from: Bullseye

Hope you are right Redhawk, my 25ACP Conversion is in the mail.

I do not work for Cecil Epp or even know him, other than ordering his conversion. All I am doing is reporting the success "I" personally am having with the 25ACP conversion in my Encores. Please, when you do some shooting with your conversion, give us a report. I want to here from other how it works in there guns.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2004, 04:12:34 PM »

I have had a lot of problem with the "crud" ring in a stainless Omega which absolutely eliminates the possibility of a second shot without serious swabbing of the bore. I shot both Pyrodex and 777 with 777 being the worst. I had to disassemble the rifle to get the powerbelt bullet out that would not seat on the powder. I hurt my hand trying to seat it. I hunt Elk by myself and cannot allow the critters to get very far from initial contact or I may not be able to retreive them. A second shot isn't always necessary but I feel a lot better if I know the possiblity is there. I have a .25 conversion in the mail also. Hopefully this will solve my problem. Accuracy with the Omega and Pyrodex (so far I have only shot loose powders-no pellets) has not been a problem. At 80 yards I get cloverleaf patterns. Why 80 yards??That is the distance my first Elk was shot with a muzzleloader and that is the distance I try for. I will post my experience when the conversion arrives. I was drawn for Elk muzzleloader again this year so I have to get serious soon. I also just bought a Pursuit LT for my brother-in-law to go with me as he was drawn also and has never shot a muzzleloader. Range time here I come.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2004, 04:40:36 PM »

Keith Lewis, first off Welcome to GBO. Your feedback would really help out here. I hope you have the success I am having with the conversion.

Keep us posted.

AndyHass · « **Reply #27 on:** August 08, 2004, 11:41:04 AM »

Just got back from my first session with the ACP conversion in my Omega.
First, I cannot say how it affected accuracy. I am still working on loads with the gun, and do not have enough experience with it to accuratly comment on this.
Last session (regular plug) I found it shot 200 gr Shockwaves MOA at 110 gr FFg 777, and 2" with 220 gr Dead Centers and 100 gr 777. I could not shoot much, as I spent half my time trying to unstick the range rod from the barrel as I struggled to clean out the obstinate crud ring.
This session, things changed. First, I got off about 35 shots in a couple hours because the crud ring was almost non-existant. There was breech fouling still, but it was easily worked out in a couple strokes. Second, it really affected what would shoot. The Shockwave load that had been so accurate blew wide open... 2-4". The 220 gr Dead centers were about .5" inch worse. However, the 240 gr Dead Centers with 100 gr 777 shot a couple of very impressive groups with at least 2 of 3 bullets touching. I ran out of these bullets, but will order more and work up to max accurate charge next session.
I found priming/depriming with this system much easier. The breech still got some dirt into it, so it isn't truly sealed. But I like it, and it was worth the money just to get rid of the $%#! crud ring!
Incidentally, the plastic insert from a box of 209 primers works great as a holder for the ACP shells (I used a Remington STS tray).

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 08, 2004, 12:05:13 PM »

AndyHass, Thanks for the report. Keep us informed on your progress.

Author Topic: Encore 50 cal ML with 25ACP breech plug. *RANGE UPDATE* (Read 1875 times)

Author Topic: Encore 50 cal ML with 25ACP breech plug. RANGE UPDATE (Read 1875 times)