43 SPANISH DIMENSIONS

[JCP]

Today I bought an 1879 rolling block rifle That looks like it's never been fired, but surley it has. The hammer face looks like it's never touched the firing pin. You can still see the polishing marks in the chamber. With the rifle I got 5 paper patched cartriges that want fit the chamber and 9 lubed ones that does. The case head measures .515 and the empty case length is 2 1/4" scale measured. The shoulder is about 1 5/8" from the rear of the case. The bullet from the case is the right size for the bore, I don't remember that dimension at the moment but I know it was right for 43 spanish, and It weighted 370 grs. The powder charge was about 82 grs. black powder  by weight not volume. Can anyone tell me if this is the right case head dimension for the 43 spanish? As much as the cases cost I don't want to order the wrong thing. Any help would be appreciated.

[John Traveler]

JCP,

Please be advised that Spain changed from their standard .43 Spanish to the .43 Spanish Reformado ("reformed") cartridge in the late 1870's.  The lead bullet was about 370 grains  behind that 82 grain black powder charge.  Most of their service rifles were rechambered for the improved cartridge firing a larger diameter thin bronze-jacketed bullet in the standard groove diameter (nominally 0.346").  They maintained safe chamber pressures by using an extraordinarily long chamber throat.

Because of this long-throating, the old lead bullet load usually shoots poorly in the Reformado chamber.  Case life is usually also poor because of the bottleneck design, and thin case rims giving excessive headspace.

The 0.515" diameter case head is correct, but you may get better results from swaging down .348 Winchester cases for your shooting needs.

Contact me offline for details.

[JCP]

Thanks John, from what I understand the ones that were rechambered were restamped with the new chamber size, Mine is not restamped so I guess it must be the origional chambering.

[Gowge]

This is some of that loaded ammo in re-formed cartridge cases..  I've been lookin' at some of those old Rolling Blocks in Military cartridges too - seen some in 7x57mm, 7.65, 8mm, and a host of others.   It sure is tempting!  

GOOD LUCK!  

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,24.html

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,3868.html

[JCP]

Thanks Gowge. Sounds like you are from down under, I sure would like to visit there some day. What kind of fire arms can you still have there?

[Gowge]

Thanks Gowge. Sounds like you are from down under, I sure would like to visit there some day. What kind of fire arms can you still have there?

Not Down Under, JCP - I'm just Down South.  I need to update my profile & add a few items....    I have friends in OZ that I ring up & chat with these days...  IF I call them in the evenings (EST) it's almost 14hours later on the next day over there!  (Christies Beach, South Australia)  :wink:

Small World Indeed!  

[445supermag]

Lets stop this reformado urban legend that the 43 reformado is a rechambered 43spanish. I have both. The 43ref is a belgen made gun and the gun is not 439 grouve dia but a 455 grouve. I also have a dam near new barrel in 43 ref that is the same as the belgen one. I have also ammo for both . The 43 spanisn rem is a bottle neck cart and cast bullit. The 43 reformado is an almost stright cart with a brass bullit. Both barrels that are reformado are marked with a r were the barrel meats the recever. None of the 43 spanish remington have a r. Both cases are the same lingth,base and rim diam. The rear sight is also different. The reformado has a sodered on rear sight with a 200 meter battle setting. The spanish rem is a screwed on rear sight. I hope this clears up some of this mix up. Most of this 43 spanish reformado was found in cuba during the spanish american war.

[JCP]

445supermag, Thanks for the info. Mine has the screwed on sight and is all origional I'm sure. I plan on purchasing my brass from Buffalo arms. They have the reformed 348. They also have new brass for 43 spanish by Bertram of Australia, I think it's is close to 2.00 each. It should last a long time though. On the other hand for the price of 125 cases you could buy a 45 cal. barrel.

[445supermag]

I have never used the bertrem stuff so i can,t tell how good it is . Most of my brass is bufflo arms but when midway has some magtech brasson the close out pages i buy that. From what i have read is that it is the former bell co. that was bought out by eldorado cart co. that is now owned buy pmc. Mag tech makes the 50/90 brass.

[BobS]

When I bought my Argentine rolling block "contemporary sporter" (meaning it had been bubba'd in antiquity), I got an open box of UMC commercial loads, 385 grain lead alloy bullet, one of which I fired; I then removed the huge berdan primer and drilled and chamfered the pocket for a shotgun battery cup, and that was THE case for a few years.  That was about 35 years ago.   That one case was fired several hundred times and is still useable, but I have found other options for brass (see other post on .43 Spanish).

I also bought a bunch of military ammo, all dated 1884 to 1888; folded head case, and brass "jacketed" bullet.  This also fit the rifle, and some would even fire, but the cases being old and brittle would sometimes split and stick.  I disaasembled most of the military stuff, popped the primers (those that would, any way); pried out the primers and gave them the shotgun battery cup treatment.  With the Lyman 439386 bullet and 50 grains of FFg, they held up well.   I still have some of those "jacketed bullets", and I often wondered about them.   The case dimensions were identical to the commercial UMC ammo, or as close to "identical" as you can get within manfacturing tolerances; they were not "different" from the UMC cases, and both were bottle-necked.  

Resp'y,
Bob S.