Author Topic: Dumb question about 22 ammo (Read 1541 times)

Bis · « **on:** August 15, 2004, 04:07:09 PM »

Hello everyone
I have never posted on this forum before, but thought you guys could help.
I was going to enter a postal match on another forum. One of the categories was 22 rim fire rifle, so I got out my 10/22 and sand bagged it and had a pattern that looked like I used a shot gun, most shots in the 9 ring and a few in the 10. I got out my Marlin that my dad gave me 40+ years ago and the groups improved. The best I can do is 4 shots in the 10 and a flier cutting the 8/9 ring. I have spent many days trying to get 5 rounds in the 10 with no luck.
I am now wondering if part of the problem is the ammo. I am using Remington ammo in the 550 round box. Where we live we are locked into what Wal-Mart sells. So it is either the Rem. stuff or CCI Blazer. Is the Rem. stuff great for plinking and not that good for serious shooting? I am open to any suggestions, this thing ought to put 5 in the 10 ring at 50 yards.
Thanks for any info.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2004, 04:48:57 PM »

It seems most brands of bulk ammo isn't well known for exceptional accuracy although some rifles are the exception to the rule. Surely Wally World handles more brands of ammo than that. On a 22 rimfire you have to try as many brands of ammo as you can get a hold of. A lot of shooters say standard velocity ammo is more accurate than high velocity ammo. All rifles seem to have a preferance for a certain brand of ammo and you have to try to find out which one. :money:

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2004, 01:38:58 AM »

With ALL guns you must find the load it likes. In a rimfire that means trying different brands. Around here Wal-marts carry the Federal HPs in bulk packaging. I have found that to be quite accurate in most of my rimfires. But honestly you just never know what a gun will like until you try it.

Are you using a scope or iron sights? At what distance are you shooting? What is the group size in inches?

PA-Joe · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2004, 02:17:42 AM »

Another factor is learning when not to clean your 22 barrel. Most Marlins take 25-35 rounds to season. Every time you change brands of ammo you have to re-season the barrel. Once you find which brand your gun likes then you do not have to reclean the barrel until the groups start to spread out (10,000 round or so).

Try not cleaning your barrel and try several brands of ammo.

jgalar · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2004, 09:05:15 AM »

I'll second the suggestion for the Federal HP bulk rounds.

crawfish · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2004, 02:11:35 PM »

If you are as you say locked into Wal-Mart Try some of the catalog guys, Midway, Midsouth, and Graf&Sons each sell about a bzillion brands and then differences within the brands. I haven't shot a postal in about two months got hooked on that s.o.b. "black death" target and can't put it down. My 10/22 and my match Contender by BullBerry are both able it is me who is sucking hind tit just now. BTY I use Federal Gold Eagle and Tenex to shoot matches. I also shoot CCI mini-mags, Stingers, and Velociters just not for matches.

Bis · « **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2004, 04:46:39 PM »

Thanks everyone for the replys. I will try to answer all the questions.
I have never taken 22's serious for target shooting, except in junior high with the same Marlin rifle until another forum posted a "postal match" and one of the events was with a 22 in any position at 50 yards and a max of 6 power scope or open sights.
I started out with my 10/22 and after 20 rounds I could see that it was useless so I tried my Marlin model 80-DL and I was getting a min. of 2 in the X ring and one group of 4 in the X and one cutting the 8-9 ring.The group size was about the size of a dime. I have tried brushing the barrel after every string of 5 shots and I have tried cleaning after 40 shots. Things just seem erratic and at 50 yards with a scope it seems that I should be able to have one hole. Thats why I was considering that perhaps the Rem. ammo might not be the best for accuracy.
I tried to get some Federal ammo at Wally World but they have been out for 10 days. I can only imagine how long it will take for them to get more in ( I have been waiting for 4 weeks for 44 mag ammo).
Do you think the problem is with the ammo or should I be cleaning the bore more often , I am giving the barrel time to cool after every 5 round string, its still warm but not hot. I have had shots that I KNOW were on target but ending up in the 7 or 8 ring.
Any ideas or suggestions will greatly appreciated.
By the way the X ring is the size of a quarter.
Thanks everyone.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2004, 06:06:32 PM »

I think you need to throw that cleaning rod away. That's probably your trouble. With .22 rimfires I only clean when accuracy goes to pot. My Rremington 541-T hasn't been cleaned in nearly 10 years and will still shoot MOA with the ammo it likes.

Bikenut · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2004, 02:30:32 AM »

I just want to say something about cleaning the bore of .22LR rifles.... and I'm not knocking what anyone says about this... just explaining something I finally figured out for myself.

Care must be taken when listening to advice as to cleaning intervals since it doesn't depend on length of time between cleanings but does depend on the amount of rounds sent through the bore.

Some people say they haven't cleaned the bore on their .22 for many years and it still shoots great... I have no doubt they are telling the truth! However, without knowing how many rounds they shoot per year it is difficult to use that time period as a guage as to when I should clean mine.

A person who just hunts with their .22 might shoot a couple of hundred rounds per year but a target shooter might expend a few thousands of rounds through their dedicated target gun during competition per year. Then there are a few guys like me.......... retired, dearly love to shoot, and live 10 minutes from the range (I know I'm a lucky s.o.b.!)..... it is normal for me to shoot 1000 to 2000 rounds per week during the summer. So I end up doing a solvent cleaning (NO brushes see the inside of my bores!) at least once a week, sometimes twice during a week. This has kept accuracy consistant.

Again, I'm not knocking what anyone is saying about cleaning intervals... just trying to clear up the time interval thing. And I'm also not saying that the way I do it is the end all/be all best way either....... I'm just saying that it isn't how many days/weeks/months/years that matter but it is how many rounds were shot that does matter.

As an aside....... I suspect that the gun itself really doesn't much care how often the bore is cleaned until it gets well and truely fouled.... but that there is a lot of unnecessary cleaning being done (perhaps myself included) simply because it makes the owner feel good to know the bore is clean. I wish someone had the time and resources to take a bunch of different brand .22's and do a long term test... shoot them all without cleaning and see how many rounds it takes for accuracy to go away. I have a feeling that info will totally amaze all of us!

De41mag · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2004, 03:17:55 PM »

Bikenut;

I totally agree with what your saying.
This winter I purchased a T/C 22 Classic Benchmark, after about 450 rounds I had a cartridge rupture. Was shooting CCI SGB bullet at the time. So after that happened I called CCI and they said send the ruptured case to them to anylize it. Well they said that the gun fired out of battery .125" off. they were very helpful and sent me well over $50.00 worth of ammo at no cost to me for sending them the cartridge.
Well went shooting again later after this and had another rupture. Called T/C this time. They said that they hold the tolerences so close that the gun should be cleaned after about every 200 rounds. So now I have a high maintence 22. Which I'm not complaining, This is the most accurate 22 I've ever owned. Heck I even splattered a fly on my target at range at 50yds. And have yet to use the match stuff. Only the CCI green tag ammo.
So every rifle has it's own set of rules.
Just my 2 cents.

Dennis

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #10 on:** August 19, 2004, 02:40:41 PM »

I have found that not only are the bulk packaged ammo packs very innacurate (such as Remington Gold's), but they're made with less care and duds are more likely arise. But I have found that the CCI's are good. Good luck :grin:

Bis · « **Reply #11 on:** August 19, 2004, 03:03:02 PM »

Thanks everyone for all the info.
I guess the only my to tell for sure is to try some other ammo. Since the nearest gun shop is 50 miles away, I will be making the drive this weekend and buying a verity of shells.
Thanks again.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2004, 05:31:03 PM »

I know you said Wal-mart is the only place you have that is close but how about some bait and tackle stores, some of them sell rimfire ammo here in Indiana. That's a bummer having to drive that far for ammo.

Charles/NM · « **Reply #13 on:** August 20, 2004, 06:00:58 AM »

I buy99.99% of my 22lr ammo from Wal Mart. I like Dynapoint bulk ammo the best. I have tested it along with Wolf Match and Match Extra, Fiocchi S320 and SM340 Biathlon, Lapua Club, Aguila SE Extra, Win T-22, etc. Wolf with 3/8" groups at 50 yards is the most accurate in my Marlin model 60 rifles with Fiocchi S320 almost as good. T-22 and Dynapoint shoot well enough for plinking with accuracy at 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 50 yards. For the small difference in accuracy I find Dynapoint serves me well. I need to try some CCI Mini-Mags to see how they perform.

Bis · « **Reply #14 on:** August 20, 2004, 06:25:39 PM »

Nightrain52- Our bait stores (both of them) sell only bait, the pawn shops do carry some ammo. There is a larger Wal-mart to the north (about 35 miles), the gun shop is to the west, but it might be worth a call to see what they have.
Charles/NM- is a marlin model 60 older than a model 80? Will these older Marlins handle the CCI Mini-Mags? The model 80 my dad gave me in 1958 sure will out shoot all the new 22's that I have. I guess my dad had good taste :-) .

T191032 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2004, 11:31:57 AM »

Hi,
Having read the initial post, and replies, I would like to add to the discussion. I agree with trying other brands/bullet weights. One to avoid is Winchester XPert, a bulk-pack loading that is not worth the money. I made the mistake of buying a whole case and was giving the stuff away to people when I found out how bad it was. They reported back to me the same results I was getting. Three Ruger .22 pistols, a 10/22 and Henry Lever action told quite a tale of misfires and weak rounds with the XPert ammunition.
On your Ruger 10/22 and getting "shotgun patterns," did you check the barrel retaining nuts? I found mine to be loose after a shooting session. Also, you might consider a replacement barrel unless the postal match doesn't permit such.
My personal choices run towards CCI Mini-Mags, and am especially happy when the gun shoots it better than I can hold.

Bis · « **Reply #16 on:** August 21, 2004, 12:48:52 PM »

T191032-I presume that you are talking about the screw just forward of the clip. I did notice that it was lose while I was down at my pond shooting turtles, it was all most all the way out. I guess thats what they mean by a floating barrel :-) . This was before I tried shooting targets. The fact that there is 5 inches difference between the barrel lengths of the two rifles might have a lot to do with the differences in accuracy. I do like the 10/22, it is very handy even if the clips do hang up sometimes, I have a John Deere Gator that I use on our property and I have rigged up a gun rack that I can just throw the 10/22 in the back and be on my way.
Several people have mentioned the CCI Mini-Mags. I know nothing about them. Are they souped up rounds? Will vintage 1950s 22s be able to handle them, I have several 1950 era 22s that I like to shot and would hate to screw them up.

BillP · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2004, 05:54:30 PM »

Longer barrels are no more accurate than short ones. One thing that may make your 10/22 less accurate is that it sounds like you may have been cleaning the guns a lot, and using a cleaning rod. :evil: If so you have to clean your 10/22 from the muzzle. That makes it real easy to damage the bore where it is the most serious. If this is the case you now have an excuse to put an aftermarket tube on that Ruger. I like the carbon fiber but that's just my preference. Do check around because at least one widely advertised and stocked in stores replacement barrel is best used as a tent stake.

T191032 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 26, 2004, 03:48:49 PM »

Quote :
T191032-I presume that you are talking about the screw just forward of the clip. I did notice that it was lose while I was down at my pond shooting turtles, it was all most all the way out.

True, that screw is consistent at unscrewing, but I was referring to the notched block under the barrel. If you take the action out of the stock, look for two hex-head screws. That was what I was referring to. :-)
CCI Mini-Mags are considered High Velocity rounds.

Bis · « **Reply #19 on:** August 26, 2004, 04:43:29 PM »

Thanks everyone.
I am not sure I am ready to buy a new barrel for a fairly new rifle.
I will have to dismantle the rifle and see if the notched block is lose.
Will the CCI Minie-mags screw up an older 22- vintage 1950's ?

George Foster · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2004, 12:43:37 AM »

Bis,

The CCI mini-mags will not screw up your rifle. They are loaded to the same velocity and pressure as other 22 ammo. I find the CCI subsonic ammo is very accurate in my rifles. If you damaged your Ruger barrel by cleaning it would probably be the crown only and you could have it recrowned. This normally runs $25 to $35, I doubt you would need a new barrel.

Another ammo that your WalMart may or may not have is the Win. Dynapoints, this is another ammo that you generally get good accuracy with.

Bis · « **Reply #21 on:** August 28, 2004, 09:11:02 AM »

George Foster- Thanks, I will have to try some CCI mini-mags. I think our Wal-Mart carries them, I would have to go to a larger city to find the Win ammo.
I looked at the crown of my 10/22 with a magnifying glass and saw no scratches or burrs, just a perfect chamfer.
I still need to remove the barrel and check the "notched block" in the stock.