Author Topic: human scent? answer?  (Read 669 times)

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Offline fishdaddy

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human scent? answer?
« on: August 30, 2004, 05:14:27 PM »
My theory on human scent is when I was young I trapped in a place in W.Va. that there were very few people which meant a lot less human scent but now I trap in a place that sees lots of human travel so i think that the ? of human scent has been answered. If the animals are acustomed to it then it doesnt matter that much but the less contact with human scent the more weary they are.
 That just my theory.
           fish.

Offline ak homesteader

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2004, 11:54:17 AM »
I think you are right, animals are not stupid they know you've been there. On the other hand if your trap smells  like something out of the ordinary they will know that to and are going to be a bit suspicious.
"Who are the militia? They consist of the whole people."
-Patrick Henry, 1782

Offline Jacktheknife

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2004, 04:20:22 PM »
Howdy Alaska,  I wonder how ya'll get those photographs to show by your names when ya'll go to do some writing?  I been seeing those for years, and think they look very professional.  I think I could figure it out now, as I am 52.  Almost as old as you are!
                                                            Thanks J. Knife
Invalid e-mail address. Fix it asap. GB

Offline coyotero

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2004, 06:58:20 AM »
fishdaddy   My thinking on human scent has changed or evolved over my trapping career.I started out as a clean freak and discovered that all the stuff I was doing wasn't necessary.Look at what your animals do on a daily basis.My coyotes and fox crawl under rusty barbwire fences almost daily,there goes they're afraid of rust theory.Some real good locations are gates here.People spit snuice,urinate,dump trash,idle gas and diesel trucks at these places.Canines still use gates.Now I'm use clean traps to start,use the dirty trap for remakes,brush up the area where I kneel .I do use gloves for setting,I take them off to apply lure,I don't want lure smells on my traps.Yes I've caught coyotes in undyed and waxed new traps(just washed off the grease,But that's not my usual preference.
I love the smell of coyote gland lure early in the morning.It smells like victory!!

Offline ak homesteader

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2004, 01:44:30 PM »
Quote
Almost as old as you are!


Thanks I needed that!!!
"Who are the militia? They consist of the whole people."
-Patrick Henry, 1782

Offline trappnman

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2004, 02:50:24 AM »
coyotero- I agree with all of your post- I've found the same things you did-except for one statement where I believe you erred.

My coyotes and fox crawl under rusty barbwire fences almost daily,there goes they're afraid of rust theory

Apples to oranges.

I don't beleive that RUST spooks or intriques or whatever you want to call it- in short, provides a reaction from a coyote.

But- I do believe- that put a piece of RUSTING metal in the ground (the trap), and unantural scents (lures) etc- and that coyote will walk around the trap or even dig down to the trap in a lot of cases. And then, cause hes not sure what to do but errs on the side of caution- he doesn't walk on the trap.

Every cooyte? Certainly not....but basedo nmy observations and tests ,enough.

A rusty trap does in my opinion spook coytes. Bill Nelson, O'Gorman and the Leggittts also proscribe to this a theroy.
Your American Heritage- Fur Trapping, Hunting & Fishing



Offline coyotero

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2004, 04:49:44 AM »
Trppnmn   When you get a canine dug up trap most likely it moved,tipped or rocked in the bed.They see/feel the movement and dig.Most digging I get is from young coyotes,they seem to like to dig around the fresh dirt.I supply them with other fresh dirt to investigate before they get to my set.This really cuts down on digging,that and rock solid bedding.The rusty trap thing,here goes,it depends on what you consider rusty?I remake all my sets with the trap that took the animal,shined up,skunky's etc.I reset just outside the circle and I'm back in business.I don't have time to retreat my traps during the season.I have on a few occasions replaced a trap at a catch. Usually because it needs fixin'. I just had this discussion with Gary Jepson, he came up to see how I was doing after surgery and we went out looking at 4 preposed lines for this fall.The old digging at a rusty trap theory got going when lures were made from rotted down materials,which can cause digging depending on what is in it.As soon as Nelson and others started to produce lures with fresh ingredients and aromatics the animals were trying to eat it and lots of the digging stopped.These are only my theories your experience may differ.I wish you could come out and go along for a couple of days,it would be fun,especially the lively discussions.We'd run hard and see lots of good country.
I love the smell of coyote gland lure early in the morning.It smells like victory!!

Offline jim-NE

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2004, 04:24:03 AM »
Here in heart of farm country, even something rusty under the ground surface isn't something "unusual" at all for a coyote, fox, etc. to encounter. Parts from machinery come off all the time, and get put to the subsurface upon the next pass with the plow or disc.
My field edge and fencerow edge sets include lots of rusted barb wire, stained and odorous spots from gasoline and diesel fuel from farm implements, human spit and urine spots, etc. etc. etc. and the list goes on and on.
My experience is that if an odor or "visual" thing isn't associated with danger, i.e. a negative learned experience, then why would an animal have any reason to fear it save for some innate internal reaction to something "new" that they haven't experienced before? This theory I'm sure wouldn't apply in other areas less populated or that contained similar naturally occurring odors or visuals in the environment...but around here things like this are just part of the everyday scenery for these animals. Yes coyotes are naturally high-strung and paranoid, so I'm sure that new experiences really have them on edge when they encounter them.
I stopped setting with gloves, setting clothes, super clean tools, etc. a long time ago, and have noticed absolutely no decrease to my catch rate and a lot less time and hassle spent making sets.
Fence intersections in certain sections are also the same places that a local farmer/landowner uses to relieve himself at when running the tractor...I've seen him do it a million times there when I'm with him. I've also caught a lot of coyotes at the same spot. Its a great location due to funnelling of 4 different fencerows and a couple of old dirt roads into one spot in center of the section. Its full of beer cans, old pieces of rusty wire, etc. as well as the human toilet aspect. I just think none of it hurt passing coyotes through their during the night...so why should they fear this stuff at this location? In this area, a stopped truck on the roadway nearby makes coyotes high tail it out of a section way more than any odor like rust, gas, etc. Often a stopped vehicle on a county road means they will get shot at.
Maybe no rust odors normally occur near a mousehole...so they get suspicious when the two odors occur together in a new way not experienced before. I don't go out of my way to set where there is junk or a pee stain in the grass either...but I'm not obsessive about it and of course always set on decent target animal sign...if the animals are traveling there...then obviously they don't have issues with these things in that location, no matter what is lying around nearby.
I too believe that a tippy or poorly bedded trap is main cause for most flipped or dug up traps. It moved under their feet...it raises their curiosity and they check it out. An educated animal obviously that has a prior pinch experience or a face full of thrown dirt from a fired trap to relate to this movement under their feet, will react much differently. I think they could do it with a run of tippy trap experiences, too. Smell a certain lure, might mean there's something that will move close by also. I have no clue how long retention-type memory sustains in a coyotes life. I bet the more dangerous or uncomfortable something is for them, the longer they recall the experience associated with it. I'm not a coyote and can't really answer that for sure though.
Skunks have an uncanny ability to locate little hollows just under the surface...an ability that helps them locate grubs. A hollow spot under a trap pan I think tells them there may be food down there. I get a lot of "digger" skunk visits at my predator sets.
Coons are super curious, and are great at flipping. They hunt for food by flipping objects. I have more trouble from coons than anything else when I find flipped and unfired traps when running sets. Solid bedding is critical to land trapping coons, I think.
I've encountered my share of "digger" fox and coyotes, too. Hook a toe claw on a trap jaw...and the trap gets moved a little when they are digging at a dirthole for whatever smells good at the bottom of it. Maybe they did have an experience with traps before, too. Who knows? A new set with a different look or odor made nearby seems to take them in the next few days for me.
Hal Sullivan in a recent Trapper & Predator Caller article I think hit the nail on the head. He used to spend a lot of precious time going after the "smart" ones and diggers. He ended up wasting a lot of precious trapline time and effort, and often found that the old, wise, "smart" ones were actually not better animals to present to the fur buyer either. Scars, missing ears, mange spots, etc. Older wiser animals don't always translate to beautiful pelts. Leave them for "seed" is how he put it. The ability to dig traps up didn't seem to be something genetic that they could pass along to their offspring or teach them either...and he benefitted from their reproductivity tenfold by concentrating on their less-educated offspring. Its fun to match wits with a smart one...but not always something that will translate to a fatter fur check by any means, and often the knowledge you gain was only good for that particular animal anyway but not necessarily useful across the entire general critter population in the future.
Anyway...sorry to be so windy here with my two bits on this, and again what works for me isn't by any means applicable to all areas either...but because of where I trap and in these conditions, it seems to work for me.
jim-NE

Offline Asa Lenon

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2004, 05:21:55 AM »
Alaskan Homesteader:
I've been dealing and communicating with trappers on a daily basis for 50 years.  According to every single Alaskan that has ever touched on the subject with me, absolute cleanliness of traps, snares and equipment along with taking measures to reduce human scent in the area are essential to succeed with wolves.  This "cleanliness" thing obviously takes on different levels of significance depending upon one's trapping locality and how accustomed canines are to closely associating with human presense and foreign odors such as rust along with canine populations and how willing because of food supply the animals are to taking a risk.   Here in the wilderness of Michigan's U.P., one will harvest at a drastically reduced level if reasonable measures of human and equipment cleanliness isn't adhered to.  I've known trapper that refuse to buckle down and consequently have never caught a coyote older than a Spring puppy.  I also agree with trappnman that canines will many time avoid stepping on a trap bed where a rusty trap is buried.  Improperly bedded traps can cause a digger but more often from my experience there is an odor emitting from the trap.  Regardless of the level of good clean habits that are necessary in one's region, one can NEVER go wrong by incorporating good habits into their trapping routine.  The secret to successful trapping along with hard work is paying attention to small details as there is no one big secret.  It is the attention to details like clean habits that add up a total maximum harvest one by one by one. I've instructed at least a hundred students in my time and the proof is in the pudding so to speak.  Those who adopted my "small detail theory" went on to become top trappers in their region.  Those who argued the point and looked for the big secret, super lure or easier softer way failed miserably or harvested at way below average levels.  Just my opinion, a trapper should be thinking what they can add to their detail and procedure to become more proficient, not what they can get away with and still harvest a few animals.  Ace :grin:

Offline coyotero

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2004, 11:58:10 AM »
jin-NE good post.I agree :wink:
I love the smell of coyote gland lure early in the morning.It smells like victory!!

Offline trappnman

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2004, 05:52:47 AM »
Listen to what I said-

I said that in my area of farmland country- a RUSTING trap COMBINED with the ADDITION of LURES, UNNATURAL BAITS- spooks coyotes.

Believe me, don't believe me.

Asa says- I also agree with trappnman that canines will many time avoid stepping on a trap bed where a rusty trap is buried. Improperly bedded traps can cause a digger but more often from my experience there is an odor emitting from the trap

My experiences exactly Ace- btw, didn't get up to Marquette until late Friday, so missed you- wanted to bs a little- maybe next year....
Your American Heritage- Fur Trapping, Hunting & Fishing



Offline Asa Lenon

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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2004, 12:27:26 PM »
Hey trappnman, I breezed around looking for you at Marquette!  Ace

Offline Wackyquacker

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human scent? answer?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2004, 05:36:48 PM »
I don't have anything new to add to Asa and T-man and the rest but I would like all to consider, ponder if you will, the concept of a constellation of events / triggers.  Rusting metal means nothing but, in conjunction with the set , lure, past experience with a wobbly trap etc etc, the rust may be a trigger.  Regardless, this mental approach to problem solving will go along way to putting the tough ones on the stretchers.

Offline Asa Lenon

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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2004, 03:26:33 AM »
Your absolutely correct wacky, it is when certain aspects such as human scent, foreign odors or rust become somehow associated with the set and lure. For example, a coyote or fox will many times walk right in a human trail but when the human stops and lingers for any reason such as making a set, eating their lunch, taking a rest or pee, etc. one will see evidence of tracks in the sand or snow where the canine went way out around that lingering spot before getting back on the trail. This lingering seems to put the canine into a wary, cautious mode.  One doesn't know when they make a set whether the next canine approaching is an inexperienced Spring pup or a veteran old 'yote that has had previous bad experiences with people, sets, lures, etc. or had just plain learned through the years the necessity for extreme caution to survive.  Therefore, in my opinion based on years of experience, the only logical way to harvest at one's maximum potential is to pay attention to detail to reasonably leave as little human scent in the area as possible, usine adequate methods of treating traps and equipment to make them as odor free as possible, taking precautions to leave as little sign of human presence such as human tracks, broken brush, trampled grass, etc. at or near the set, making sets appear as natural as possible, not overdoing lures, baits and urines to the point of not being possibly natural, bedding traps firmly and learning to make sets quickly and move on without tracking all over the set area leaving trail after trail of human scent.  Tucking one's pants into their boots prevents falling skin cells from making a blatant scent trail leading right up the canine approach to the set. As i've mentioned many times before, my past students who adopted my way of thinking were always successful.  Those who looked for easier and softer lazy slipshod ways always were failures or poor harvesters and eventually gave up trapping in favor of a less complicated passtime.  Thoroughness, detail, hard work and understanding the target animals behavior are the secrets to maximum harvesting of any animal one persues.  :grin: Ace