Author Topic: 260 Remington  (Read 1891 times)

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Offline Curly

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260 Remington
« on: March 20, 2005, 01:02:21 PM »
I need help from the ballistic pundits.   I am looking to build a short action rifle.   I would use it for deer, and coyote, but it is being built just for the fun of it.  I already have a .270, and don't care for the recoil of the larger calibers, nor do I need one at this time.   That is an excuse to buy another gun at a later date when I can justify the larger caliber.    My question why there is little availability or popularity of the .260.    With the factory loads from Remington, the ballistics look very similar to the .270.  With the short action, there is also the real or perceived structural rigidity of the action.     I dont know if the .260 is worth considering, or stay with the .243.  I would like to try and built the gun from the action up, and not purchase an off the shelf.  I just like the thought of something different.     Any thought?

Offline Ron T.

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260 Remington
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2005, 01:23:36 PM »
The .260 Remington, a .308 Winchester cartridge case necked down to .264 is an excellent choice... and a much better suited caliber for your needs than the .243 Winchester cartridge.

However, the .264 (aka "6.5mm") caliber has never been very popular in the US of A in spite of excellent cartridges like the 6.5 x 55 Swede.  

Winchester introduced the .264 Winchester Magnum (a .458/.338 magnum case necked down to .264) in, I believe, 1959 with a great amount of hoola and highly advertised the 100 grain varmint load because it's high muzzle velocity was a BIG selling point.

Unfortunately, some hunters used the 100 grain varmint load instead of the 140 grain big game load on big game... sometimes with dazzling results... and sometimes as a horrible failure that left big game shot with the 100 grain varmint bullet with terrible, shallow wounds that eventually resulted in death by infection.

Thus, due to the ignorance of some "hunters" (if you can call them that) the .264 Winchester got a "bad" reputation and an otherwise fine, flat-shooting antelope & deer cartridge was "sentenced" into obscurity... dismissed by the vast majority of big game hunters.

Will the .260 Remington "make it" as a cartridge?  I dunno... but I doubt that it will ever be very popular when compared to it's slightly larger "brother", the 7mm/08.  That's unfortunate since the .260 Remington loaded with any of the 3 excellent Nosler Partition bullets, weighing 100, 125 or 140 grains, is a fine, light-recoiling antelope & deer cartridge that would be a delight for hunters of smaller stature... or for any hunter who prefers an accurate, effective light-recoiling round.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Ramrod

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260 Remington
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2005, 01:29:24 PM »
The .260 is probably just about perfect for medium size game. It's only problem has been that 6.5mm is one of those in between calibers that never caught on as a hunting round in the U.S. The .25's and .270 just had too big of a head start.
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Offline Don Fischer

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260 Remington
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2005, 05:13:52 PM »
They sure are right about the 264's/6.5's. Everything that has been done with them in this country to date, with the exception of the 260, has been screwed up. The 264 win mag not only blew those light bullet's to pices, but it was just a bit hard on barrel's. Then came the 6.5 rem mag and that should have been a great one but what do they put it in, the 660 magnum. Short action that interferes with seating the bullets out where they belong and to make matters worse, if I remember right, you could only get 120 gr factory ammo. That was actually a good cartridge but needed a longer action.

As long as your going to build one and if you reload, what about a 250 Ackley? That can be built on a short action. Light recoil, accurate, and even if you can't find 250 cases, you could neck up 22-250 cases. Also a good selection of bullet's from varmit's to deer.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline beemanbeme

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260 Remington
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2005, 05:29:49 PM »
The .260 is a dandy cartridge.  Suitable for all of your hunting needs east of the big river.  While its viability in view of the 7-08 is perhaps kinda iffy, all you would need would be one.  And the brass is readidly formed from 7-08 and 308.  Also, there will always be a useful array of 6.5 bullets.  'I know I like mine.

Offline leverfan

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260 Remington
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2005, 08:43:22 AM »
I just bought my second 260, and it's one of my favorite rounds.  I don't shoot factory loads, but there seems to be enough available for a non-reloader to get by.  If you reload, the 260 can be loaded with bullets from 80 grains to over 160 grains, which should cover most north american hunting.
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Offline Lawdog

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260 Remington
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2005, 10:03:02 AM »
Curly,

The biggest problem with the .260 Rem. is it doesn't offer any added advantage over the old time favorite, the 6.5mm Swede.  With the Swede's added powder capacity it actually has the advantage.  I don't really see a future for the .260 Rem.  Remington doesn't offer that many different loads for it(2 is all).  With everything being equal I would go with the 6.5mm Swede over the .260 Remington.  That's what I did for my wife.  Lawdog
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Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline leverfan

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260 Remington
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2005, 10:43:52 AM »
Quote from: Lawdog
With the Swede's added powder capacity it actually has the advantage.


Less than 2 grains of water isn't much of a capacity advantage, certainly nothing you'll notice in the field.  With some brands of brass, or once fired 260 brass, there just isn't any difference at all.  Both rounds are poorly represented by factory fodder in the USA, so both fair better with reloaders.  

Curly says he wants a short action, and that's a little hard to shoe-horn a 6.5 Swede into.  In fact, it really comes down to which rifle you want when you're picking between the Swede and the Remington.  If you simply must have a short action, or a Remington, buy a 260.  I would love to own a Winchester Featherweight in 6.5 Swede, and I expect that I will, someday.

Having measured capacities of .260 Remington, 6.5x55mm, and 6.5x57mm, there just isn't any reason for a handloader to pick one round over another in terms of actual field ability, given similar twist rates in the rifles used (so again, it comes down to which rifle, not which round).  

For a non-reloader that likes variety and doesn't mind a larger action size, the 6.5 Swede is the way to go, I guess.  Most of the Swede ammo is loaded below its ballistic potential here, and the weight range of factory loaded bullets isn't much different from what's offered in the 260.  It's easier to find 120 grain factory loads for the 260, but it's a little easier to find factory loads with bullets over 140 grains for the Swede.

Longevity for factory offered fodder may be the biggest stumbling block to buying a 260, for the non-reloader.  The 260 has been around as a wildcat for almost as long as 308 brass has been available.  Factory ammo has only been around since 1997, and it peaked at about 7 or 8 total offerings from Speer, Remington, and Federal, a number that's since dropped in half.

Mostly, they're both offered with bullets of about 140 grains.  They're two peas in a pod, both excellent rounds, and if you've got your heart set on one or the other, don't let folks talk you out of your choice.
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Offline Lone Star

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260 Remington
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2005, 11:19:59 AM »
The .260 has advantages over both the .243 and the 7-08 as an all-around cartridge.  Because it handles heavier bullets than the .243 it is better suited to medium game, and it gives flatter trajectory with suitable varmint bullets than the 7-08 with less recoil.  If you favor varmints, then the .243 is better; if you favor larger game then the 7-08 gets the nod - although what a 140-grain .260 bullet won't kill that a 145-grain 7-08 bullet will is beyond me.

The Swede has several strikes against it, although I know plenty of nostalgic shooters love it.  It is based upon odd-sized brass with more limited supply so cases can be slightly more difficult to find - unlike the .260 you can't make them from any other common case.  The overall length is too long for most short actions; short-loading those long 6.5 bullets to fit in a short action eats up any tiny case capacity advantage the Swede has over the .260.  Factory ammo is underloaded so handloading is almost a must for best performance - Norma ammo is loaded hotter but it ain't cheap.

I am a big .25-caliber fan with six firearms in that caliber (.25-20 up to the big guy), but the .260 is "better" than the .25s because it throws a heavier bullet.  My .257 Weatherbys have taken Alaskan caribou and deer, but I'd feel a lot better with a bullet of at least 140 grains on moose and bear.

My M700VLS in .260 is quite a shooter.  It really likes the 100-grain Ballistic Tips and shoots about as flat as a .22-250 does with a lot more power on impact.  That same bullet can be used on smaller deer with good results, although a slightly heavier Partition bullet is probably better.  I used to have an M7 in this cartridge and used it to kill two caribou with 120-grain bullets - just as effective as a .270 my buddy was using with a little less recoil, noise and weight

Offline Will_C

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260 Remington
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2005, 02:12:34 PM »
I have had a 7mm-08 since 1990, and also have a .243. If the .260 would have been made when I bought the 7mm-08, I would have bought the .260. Of course, then I would not have had the excuse to buy the .243!!!
Will

Offline Curly

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.260
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2005, 01:55:33 AM »
Thank you all for the responses.   I have thought about selling my Remington .270 to cover the cost of building a .260.    That would leave me with only the .260, as I don't have a large arsenal.   My .270 came from the custom shop, and I am quite pleased.  Not sue selling it is a good idea.  I don't reload, so I would have to use factory ammo on the .260.    The other problem is that I am left handed, and without getting very expensive, the only option I know of is to buy a .243, and have it rebarreled.   Remington has a CDL in Lefty .243, and much to my liking, they are doing away with the ISS.  I had contacted Remington customer service, and was advised that they are phasing it out.     I did see a nice .260 on the Dakota web site, but don't want to sell a limb to get the gun.   How expensive is it to rebarrel a gun?    Thanks again for the help.

Offline flintlock

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260 Remington
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2005, 04:17:29 AM »
Curly....I have used a .243 since 1980...have killed about 130 whitetails with...I love it....It works for me...That being said...I have a buddy that bought a .260 about 4 years ago...He bought it because he got a good deal on it...I had advised him to get a .270 or a 7mm-08...My brothers own both of these, so I know what they will do....The first few years he used the Remington 125 gr Nosler Partitions...His  gun would not group any factory load in 140 gr....Well...Remington discontinued the 125 Partitions...He ended up getting into reloading....it took him about 6-8 months to find a load that the gun would group...also ended up doing alot of work to the gun....If you don't reload....I would not buy a .260....

If you have a .270, that you like...I'd keep it...and just stitch up those coyote hides....

Companies have tried to offer us calibers for years that will be "as good or better than a .270 on whitetails"....They haven't done it in over 50 years...On paper the .260 and the 25-06 are perfect for whitetails...low recoil, shoot flat...etc...
But the only real successful round between the .243 and .270...is the 7mm-08...I suspect it will be that way for many years to come...

When you are talking about standard calibers between the .260 to a 30-06..There isn't a dimes worth of difference when it comes to killing capacity on a whitetail...Its more about the type bullet used and bullet placement....

Offline Lawdog

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260 Remington
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2005, 10:37:08 AM »
Lone Star,

Quote
and it gives flatter trajectory with suitable varmint bullets


Just what do you call a suitable varmint bullet in .264 caliber?  All the ones we tried(Hornady 95 gr. V-Max, 85 & 100 gr. Sierra Varminter and 90 gr. Speer TNT) have a problem with ricocheting and that isn't a suitable varmint bullet.  Yeah, .264 calibers are good but NOT as an all-around caliber.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Curly

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.243 Lefty
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2005, 10:45:41 AM »
Thanks for the impute.   I think I will follow my original thought, and just stay with the .243 as a 2nd gun.   I do like my .270, and there is enough difference between it and the .243 that I won't feel like it is a duplicate gun as the .260 would be.    Now I just have to wait for Remington to stop the ISS, and then order a lefty.    Curly

Offline Jim n Iowa

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260 Remington
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2005, 12:28:45 PM »
I shoot a 243, which likes 70- 85 gr bullets. Great for coyotes, ok for antelope under 200 yds. I also shoot a 7mm mag  which focus's on 120 to 160 grn bullets. I am going to load the 7 with 100 gr and the 243 with 105s. I don't see where the 260 would fit my program. It would be a nice addition, but the wife can count long guns, pistols are more deceptive.
Jim

Offline flintlock

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260 Remington
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2005, 02:06:53 PM »
Jim n Iowa....I heard that!!!  And with age comes widom...
Thanks...I needed a good chuckle tonight....Have a great Easter...
flintlock

Offline Curly

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260 Remington
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2005, 04:31:31 PM »
Thanks Jim N Iowa.        Luckily my wife has not pushed the issue on getting the combination to the gun safe.    I enjoyed the laugh.      By the way, I ordered the lefty Rem 700 in .243 today.     I called Remington, and the will not make the run of left handed guns until June.    I needed to be on the list when they are made, because when they are sold out, I will have to wait another year.

Offline Slamfire

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260 Remington
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2005, 01:00:34 AM »
When your .243 wears out you can have it rebored to .260,  :wink:
Or you can buy a Savage .243 and a .260 barrel and have one left handed rifle that does both. As far as use, the .260 is capable of continuing the 6.5s long standing tradition of killing game all out of proportion to its size. I killed a couple of nice Caribou, and some meat elk with a 6.5-.257 which is almost a carbon copy of the 6.5x57 Mauser. You won't need a .270 if you have a .260, although I can understand wanting to keep the one you have.  8)
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.