Author Topic: Scales application (Read 752 times)

ironglow · « **on:** October 16, 2004, 02:46:30 AM »

Although I regularly forge blades, I have come into a supply of commercial power hack saw blades and would like to make an assortment of small blades.

I would rather use the temper that is already drawn, rather than to go through the annnealing/ retempering process.

Any advice as to how to perforate the tang in order to fit scales?

I tried a torch heated 3/16ths rod ...no good...wouldn't concentrate the heat well enough.

Put a 3/8ths carbon cutting rod in Lincoln welder, tried to spot-heat the rivet spots, apparently the heat caused enough expansion to crack the steel from the rivet area to the outer edge of the steel...

Any suggestions?

Joel · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2004, 07:30:05 AM »

On those occasions I make knives out of files, I grind them cool to keep the original HT/temper....although I do re-temper/differentially heat treat them them aftwards. Even heating the tangs/ricassos to blue(while keeping the blade immersed in a can of cold water) doesn't seem to soften them enough to use regular drills, so I use Carbide Spade drills. You can find them at a well equipped hardware or order them through one of the Knife Supply Catalogs. I usually use 1/8",

TimWieneke · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2004, 06:10:55 AM »

I do a similar thing to what Joel mentioned. Immerse the blade in water and use a mapp gas torch to heat the tang. I find that I can heat the back 3/4's of the tang to a dull red no problem. Then I'll transfer the heated blade to my vise and gently clamp the vise right at the ricasso with the tang pointed up (heat goes up). This allows the tang to cool slowly enough (cool it too fast and you may be rehardening it) and the vise acts as a heat sink - lessening the amount of heat going into the blade. I do this when I find I need to either drill a hole for a pin or want to do some grinding on the tang for fitting and want to soften it.

Tim

ironglow · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2004, 11:21:30 AM »

Thanks Guys;
Sounds like the carbide spade tips are what I need.
I had considered using a small, very thin, 3 inch abrasive blade to cut through the full tang and then apply the scales with 2 part epoxy or JB weld.

What do you prefer for the epoyy etc. for fastening the scales on?

Joel · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2004, 08:01:06 PM »

I was using Either Devon II 30 minute epoxy or E-6000/6800, but with the new Loctite 40 minute epoxy I find around here, I mainly use it. I use E6000 or 6800(which won't yellow in sunlight) when I was using recon stone as spacers since it dries to a very strong, flexible bond. It was originally designed to repair rubber conveyor belts, but has also found a lot of use in the jewlry trade. Because I had a lot of it, I also just used in on plain scales also. The new Loctite epoxy also dries to a slightly flexible bond, so I use it for most things now(unless there is stone involved). Some folks like to use plain ol' automotive fiberglass, and others are fond of Bownell's Acraglass. I've read where "regular" epoxy is supposed to start breaking down after around 5 years, but I"ve knives older than that, that are epoxied, and there is ZERO sign of deterioation. 'Course the guy saying that , was the one using Acraglass, so go figure. Never tried the fiberglass or Acraglass, but I can see how'd they would work ok.

ironglow · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2004, 01:17:13 AM »

Thanks Joel;
I'll have to try that Loctite epoxy, appreciate the tip!

I also like to drill extra holes in the tang, randomly...other than the rivet holes; this gives extra "spikes" of epoxy through the tang to the scales on either side.

One local man here uses plywood underlayment nails (with the ripples or serrations along the whole length) for rivets...his theory is that the epoxy will grip the rivet better.

Most often, I use 1/8" welding rod, countersink the rivet holes and then peen the brass down into the countersinks before sanding.

My friend that uses underlayment nails doesn't countersink or peen over..just sands off.

Will52100 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2004, 05:57:29 AM »

Sounds like the blades you have are high speed steel, in that case good luck, carbide bits are your only choice. I wouldn't even attempt to anneal HSS without a heat treat oven, it is a pain to work. It will make a dandy small knife that will be hard to sharpen and hold an edge forever, it will also be brittle compared to other carbon steels.

ironglow · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2004, 03:12:34 PM »

You could be right there, Will. Most of my knives, I forge from 1095 or 5160 "found" steel (found, meaning salvaged).
One material I like to use is the cups or races from quality roller bearings, they make durable, and very sharp knives.
Although I forge knives, my main thrust is artistic and decorative blacksmithing...so you guys can probably teach me a thing or two...thanks..

Ironglow

Joel · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2004, 07:05:51 AM »

I'm like you ironglow in that I drill holes, actually a LOT of holes in my tang for both balance and to create "epoxy rivets" as they call them. By tacking the scale on to the tang with a few drops of Super Glue, I can also drill through the steel into each scale, so when glued I get a a really strong handle. I tend to use various fasteners on mine: I use a lot of copper, NS and brass rod in 1/8" and occasionally 3/32 also. Use a lot of copper for bolsters, along with the usual stainless steel, brass and NS. For hell for stout I use various Loveless bolts....hardly ever use the Corby's for some reason. For Pretty I go with the Mosaic Pins; I figure with all those epoxy rivet holes I use, I can still get a strong handle with them. Haven't had one come back yet(fingers crossed).