25 ACP Primer

[Redhawk1]

Great, thanks for the info.  
Let us know how it does after you go back out.

[smoky]

Range Update!!

Shot the .25ACP conversion yesterday.

1. Crud ring was not nearly as bad, although I did stick the spit patched ram rod during a cleaning pass and had to remove the breech plug to clear the barrel.  This only happened once in 6 shots.

2.  Had o.k. groups... about 1 1/2 to 2 inches with 90 grains of 777 fffg and the 200 and 220 grain Dead Centers?

Any suggestions on how to improve on either of the above.

Smoky

[Redhawk1]

smoky, 1 1/2 to 2 inches with 90 grains of 777 fffg and the 200 and 220 grain Dead Centers, what was your range? If you were at 100 yards that is decent groups. If you want to better your accuracy, you will need to play with your powder charge., or even try different bullets. Keep us informed.

[smoky]

The range was 100 yards off the bench.   It was rather hot here yesterday in South Louisiana, about 90 degrees.

I just spoke with Cecil at P.R. (I needed to order more dead centers).  He told me....

1.  A better method for spit patching between shots, which should eliminate the stuck ram rod.

2.  To work upwards to 120 grains instead of down (this is contrary to what I've been reading about 777).

3.  To try ffg instead of fffg.

I know that what I have already achieved is sufficient, but I want some groups like my center fires will shoot!!!

Also, the lock up on the encore with the .25ACP is slightly harder, but not too bad.  In cocking the hammer, I have had a couple of hang ups where it would not cock and I had to re close the breech and then it would cock.  I guess I'll just have to pay close attention when hunting.

Smoky

[Redhawk1]

The range was 100 yards off the bench.   It was rather hot here yesterday in South Louisiana, about 90 degrees.

I just spoke with Cecil at P.R. (I needed to order more dead centers).  He told me....

1.  A better method for spit patching between shots, which should eliminate the stuck ram rod.

2.  To work upwards to 120 grains instead of down (this is contrary to what I've been reading about 777).

3.  To try ffg instead of fffg.

I know that what I have already achieved is sufficient, but I want some groups like my center fires will shoot!!!

Also, the lock up on the encore with the .25ACP is slightly harder, but not too bad.  In cocking the hammer, I have had a couple of hang ups where it would not cock and I had to re close the breech and then it would cock.  I guess I'll just have to pay close attention when hunting.

Smoky

One thing is Cecil is always willing to help.  
I think almost everyone is finding it a little harder to get lock up. I know when I go hunting, I will test the hammer before I get ready to hunt. I would hate to have Mr. Wonderful walk up, and I can't get my hammer back. I just close the gun a little harder than normal. :-)

[Nic_58]

Range Update!!



2.  Had o.k. groups... about 1 1/2 to 2 inches with 90 grains of 777 fffg and the 200 and 220 grain Dead Centers?

Any suggestions on how to improve on either of the above.

Smoky

Try 100-105 grs. 777 ffg behind a 250 gr. Shockwave/SST bullet in either a T/C Mag Express sabot or a Harvester high pressure short sabot.  Swab your barrel good between EACH shot.  I use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine for between shot swabbing.  One wet patch both sides then one dry patch both sides.   You might want to weigh your powder charges if possible instead of measuring it by volume.  This will help with shot to shot consistency which is the name of the game when trying to shoot small groups.  If you choose to weigh 777, the accepted ratio is (1) grain weighed = (1.25) grains by volume.  For example, 80 grs. 777 ffg weighed on a powder scale is equal to 100 grs. measured by volume, give or take a little.  I haven't had time to get out with my Omega/ACP conversion yet but hope to before too long.  When I do, I will post my results with it.  Good luck!

[upnorth]

not to be a stickler, but I thought you should never weigh blackpowder? the grains are not consistant at all. you cannot get an even weight out of a charge. I tried it. deviation was up to several grains.

[Redhawk1]

not to be a stickler, but I thought you should never weigh blackpowder? the grains are not consistant at all. you cannot get an even weight out of a charge. I tried it. deviation was up to several grains.

I do for my 45-70 loaded with black powder. I weighed 70 gr. buy volume on my scale and came up with a average of 73 gr. by weight. I did it 30 times. Which tells me the volume measurement is the one that is not consistent. When you weigh it, the measurement is always consistent. You are 100% correct that black powder is not of consistent size. Now you can't use 70 gr. of powder by volume and then think 70 gr. by weight would be the same.  That is what they are referring to. A lot of the BPCR shooters measure by weight rather than volume, because it is a consistent weight.

[Nic_58]

not to be a stickler, but I thought you should never weigh blackpowder?

I started out weighing 777 powder charges by throwing several 100 gr. charges in a see thru powder measure made by T/C.  I took the average of all the charges thrown and then I weighed that average amount on my PACT digital scale.  Then I just poured straight from the powder bottle which has a plastic powder funnel cap on it, right into the powder pan on the scale until I was within a few tenths of a grain of my intended weight, then I trickled the rest in until every charge was exactly the same as the next.  I don't know how you could get any more uniform than that!  Since then, I have just settled on the 1 grain weighed=1.25 grains by volume ratio for 777ffg.  The load I had the best accuracy with in my Black Diamond consisted of 84 grs. weighed (105 gr. by volume).  I keep little plastic vials w/ screw on caps filled with pre-measured loads ready for the range.  They fit nicely into MTM 12 gauge shotshell boxes which hold 25 each.  This setup is quick, handy and my powder charges are exact....shot after shot!

[Keith Lewis]

I think I mentioned this before but I still see comments about difficult lock-up or failure to function (mostly Encore I think). It is a simple job to get out your caliper and check over all length of the brass. I found what works for me and size all my brass to the correct length. I have absolutely no problem with closing the Omega breech block. When I received the breechplug and the brass I was having problems trying to get it to close. If you are using them for hunting I would definately check all the lengths of the brass you intend to hunt with to be sure they will function. It is not necessary for the closure to be so difficult. I think the supplier is slanting the depth of the chamber on the safe side to be sure that the closure is tight; but it is not necessary to be that tight. With my brass sized correctly my closure is the same as it was with the 209 and everything works just fine.

[Redhawk1]

Keith Lewis, I did as you suggested and it works great.    I do not have to close my guns hard anymore. Great suggestion. :grin:

[smoky]

Redhawk1 and Keith Lewis,

How are you determining "correct length"?  Are you using a reloading manual?  And, are you using a case trimmer to cut them to the correct length, or are you running them through a decapping/resizing die, or both.

I did not buy a set of .25 ACP dies, rather I just bought a universal decapping die to punch out spent primers.

Smoky

[Redhawk1]

The 25APC trim to length is .610 according to the Lyman reloading manual, I trimmed mine to .607.  I found them to work very well in my Encore. I use a case trimmer to do this. I also use the universal decapper only. I do not use a sizing die. Once you trim them, you more than likely won't have to trim them for a long time.    I hope this is what you were looking for.

[Keith Lewis]

I trim mine with a Lyman brass trimming tool. I found that for my Omega brass from .607 to .610 works well. Brass from .610 to .614 is too long and difficult to chamber. I determined the correct length by just sorting some brass that I had and trying some to determine what felt the best. I tried to get the same feel that I was getting with the 209 primers. I have a lot of once shot .25ACP brass (several hundred rounds) so I run them through a sizing die when decapping and then size for length. I soak them in brass cleaning solution and dry them then I run them through my vibrating cleaner after decapping and that cleans out the primer seat. All this isn't necessary if you start with new brass but since I had so much used I just couldn't talk myself out of using the stuff I had. That has to be more information than you need.

[upnorth]

interesting thoughts on weighing charges. I'll have to do some more experimenting. thanks for the different perspective.