Author Topic: paper patch, small bore, 1500fps (Read 1388 times)

fffffg · « **on:** August 21, 2004, 03:52:05 AM »

using the 358430 357 mould 200 grains cast from pure lead, 1/100, 1/50.. three wraps of .00175 onyion skin, spit or special purchased mix, or spg, giving me a groove diameter bullet at .360 after sizing with patch on.. then loading with various crimps, and over sized paper patch shooting in the .363-364 range.. trying 4198 and 4895 powders, red wax check, 1/4 sheet tp over powder i have come to a dead end.. im begining to belive that 1500 feet per second and paper patch in this small bore is damageing the bullet somehow.. it shoots 1 5/8 groups at 32 yards and that is about as good as it gets.. with 1/16 lead gas check bullets .359-.360 diameter bullets from beartooth and 10 grains of unique it shoots 3/8 inch groups at 32 yards.. has shot 11/16 inch group at 65 yards,blade sights, this load yeilds about 1200 feet per second out of a 8.7x 72 r drilling.. anyone have any ideas to try?.. the gun has a long lead, shallow rifling, and bullet is good ways to the rifleing.. i can not alter the gun in any way, it is 1926 pre war german made and highly engraved. with cocking indecators and bufalohorn basket weave butt capp, greener cross bolt etc. . it chronos 1450 with black 2fg and does not shoot any better with that but havent tinkered with that as i dont want black in the action etc.. so i am at a loss as to why im getting bullet damage (it does not lead the bore.) the bullet is a tiny bit over the greenhill specs but shows no signs of tipping. twist is 1 /24, final bullet diameter is about .353, and 13/16 inch long about 1/32 less with round nose. any suggestions to try ? i think im going to reverse copper gas check behind paper patched bullet and see what happens with that next.. the groups used to drop one out of three about 3 inches low and ive stopped that with heavier crimp and now they have rounded out in the same position on the target,.. some groups have been horrizontal maybe suggesting action/bedding limits of accuracy with higher velocity loads??? ive looked at the full density loads and they are all hydroscopic, which in a damp hunting conditions could do damage to the bore so im not interested in going there.. but it does bring up the possibility of spiking pressures of smokeless damageing the base of the pure lead bullet. ...dave

45 2.1 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2004, 01:47:45 AM »

Your oversized bullets and alloy sound fine. I would try SR4759 and seat the bullet out to either engrave or be a firm push to get it into the throat. To get accuracy, you will need to get it into the throat. Any run will cause the problems that you have had. Do not worry about damaging the base of the bullet. Most powders will do that anyway. Accuracy won't be hurt.

fffffg · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2004, 09:35:36 PM »

im hoping your right i have some loaded right now with not much bullet in the case, but probably enough to hunt with. ill be posting here if you are correct.. the jump could bvery well be couseing the tip/bullet damage/patchdamage that is causing this.. if it works im in for quite a treat.. thanks for looking over my situation, i know its mostly rambling and tough to analize, but the answere is out there and im running out of options.. dave..

45 2.1 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2004, 02:09:56 AM »

With lighter smokeless loads, I would not use the lube wad or the tp filler. You want all the umph you can get to obturate that patched bullet.

Kragman71 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2004, 03:21:41 PM »

fffffg,
Please help me. With my ppb cartridges,I always aim for high density loads. What makes them hydroscopic? This is all new to me.
As to your loads. I agree,with a single-shot rifle,load the bullet out as far as you can,to minimize bullet jump.
If you are shooting soft bullets,BHN#10 or lower,the bullet base must be protected from the hot gas from the powder. I know nothing about harder bullets,then BHN#10,in PPB,s. I always use a wax wad if I am not using some kind of filler in the case.
I've never tried adding TP to the other filler in the case.What is your reasoning for doing this?
Frank

fffffg · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2004, 09:17:02 PM »

hydroscopic is a word not invented by me by all means.. the producers that makethe powder must be saddled with this problem with thier powder.. the 100 percent loads seem to have it to varying degrees.. ive ruined one target barrel somehow, and its not clear how it happend.. must not have cleaned it or rusted iin the car after firing it to empy chamber and putting it in car after 20 below outing.. this will draw moisture to the spent powder and the 2 hour drive home is a problem, so i should have run an oiled patche down the bore after fireng.. 1/4 sheet tp holds the powder against the primer giving even ignition,, that is if the powder is to the rear of the case it will fire with diffeent results than if level in the case, and then differently if in the front of the case.. .. i cant offer much help with ppatch bullets as im in the low end of the lerning curve right now.. im breaking some rules and cant tell which they are without anyone to show and talk to locally.. all is relitive in print, and what would take a pro seconds to analize in person can take forever over the printed word. im beginninge to belive my powder load is not good, as i have tried alot of things.. im going to work on powder loads for a while without paper patch and see what is going on there.. good luck with your ppb loads, dave..

BR · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2004, 11:32:56 PM »

fffffg, I noted in an earlier post that you had tried using Pyrodex. Be advised that it is considered corrosive, perhaps not quite as aggressive as black powder, but it requires timely cleaning with water just like BP.

fffffg · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2004, 08:59:53 PM »

yes, and i then found out that clear shot and 777 are all hudroscopic, or will rust a bore with some conditions.. dave..