Author Topic: Omega Accuracy Problems (Read 1518 times)

Spartan · « **on:** September 11, 2004, 10:01:09 AM »

I know there are many Omega .50 owners out there. Can someone please help before I go broke shooting up all this powder and bullets?

My goal: Shoot whitetail as far away as possible (250 yards is about all I can hold still for).

I read a lot on the web before being convinced to purchase the 200gr dead centers. I used 110 gr of loose T7 and came away with 4 inch groups. Not good enough.

I then ordered the new dead center duplex sabots at 175 gr. (I'm a sucker for gadgets and the latest and greatest ) Still using 110 gr of T7, I had trouble keeping them on paper. I found a few sabots on the range and they looked fine - even grooves and normal bases.

Next I tried TC's 200gr shock waves with 115 gr of T7. Just when I would start getting a 3" group at 100 (still not acceptable) the next round would be off the target. I even had one shot fly through the next target over (2 feet left) and the hole was the perfect side profile of the bullet. What the crap! Right from the start I disliked how the the bullets won't seat in the sabot all the way down. Consequently, they want to shift to the side and are difficult to center in the sabot. I found a few sabots on the range. Two had a missing pedal and their base had a weird flat / dent in line with the pedal that was broken off. I also found one lone pedal (petal?) and it was all twisted and distorted. Can TC really produce such garbage or did I get a bad box?

Question 1: So since I'm a rookie to muzzleloading (however I can hold 3/4" groups with my 300WSM) can someone suggest a flat shooting / tight grouping set up for my Omega 50?

Question 2: I've been told that I might be cleaning the barrel too much between rounds. What? My first (and hopefully only) shot during a hunting trip is going to be with a clean barrel. If I have to have a dirty barrel in order to group well, I'd might as well sell my muzzleloader now. My usual procedure between rounds is to run a spit patch down to the crud, come back up, flip the same patch, run all the way down to the plug. I thin run a dry patch all the way down, flip, and back down again. Then I'm done. Does anyone see a problem with this?

Question 3: Do you all agree that a bullet should sit well inside its sabot? I.E. to the bottom, and centers easy between the petals?

Question 4: What do you think about bpbullet's QT.40 in 180gr using around 115 gr of T7 ? Remember, 50 cal with 209.

Question 5. I read some posts here indicating good Omega results with the 200gr SST and 110gr of T7. I went to the SST site and they don't make a 200gr in 50 cal. Am I confused?

Sorry for the long read. I really appreciate any comments.

AndyHass · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2004, 12:25:45 PM »

The report of 200gr shockwaves on 110 grains 777 FFg was mine...The Shockwaves and SSTs are the same thing, only I don't think they market the 200gr under the SST name.
It always worried me that the SST/SW bullets don't seat well in the sabots. This is one reason I've preferred PR bullets.
My Omega shot several sub-1" groups with the above load. It got inconsistent when I removed the barrel from the stock, but NEVER shot them over 2" or so. 100 gr was about the same. Never tried above 110 yet.
The duplex dead centers shoot like crap in my Omega. Both weights gave 4-6 inch groups.
The 220 grain .40 DC shot pretty well too. Several groups around 1.25". The 240 grain seemed to shoot well also....around 1" with 100 grains.
My main problem has been that removing the action from stock would change the accuracy significantly. I just finished installing aluminum pillars and glass bedding the action last night, and hope to have full results next weekend.

First off, you NEED to remove the crud ring each and every shot. A single spit patch is sufficient between shots (IMO). I have NEVER seen a bullet come out of a ML sideways during normal shooting....something is seriously wrong there. Bad accuracy yes, but tumbling a bullet that should shoot AT LEAST ok out of the gun is weird.
I would try the 200 and 250 gr SST/SW, and the 200 and 240 gr .40 DC bullets. Start around 80 grains and work your way up. Some guns simply won't shoot magnum loads. My old Traditions Lightning now has an unreliable ignition mechanism, but despite being a cheap gun it would shoot both weights of SST up to max charge accurately. It would also shoot the 195 Duplex DC well.
I had a talk with Cecil at PR Bullets about how finicky my Omega is, and he basically told me I am full of crap....didn't buy any bullets there for awhile. Bottom line, even of the same model, each gun is different and recommendations are a starting point at best. Good luck.

Spartan · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2004, 01:00:36 PM »

Thanks for taking the time to reply Andy. I will keep working at it. I saw you do cancer research in Michigan. My brother did his MDPHD in cancer research through U of M. I'm excited to see Notre Dame having their way with those dirty rodents!

herb40 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2004, 03:24:43 PM »

I have two omegas both shoot 1 1/2"groups shooting 250 gr. ssts and 100 grs. of t777. I am getting about 2000' ft per sec. out of this load with the omegas. I clean between each shot and shoot a primer off between shots to make sure breech channel is dry and clear, also i loosen my breech plug every five shots to make sure it isnt freezing up .

Spartan · « **Reply #4 on:** September 11, 2004, 03:58:07 PM »

Thanks Herb. I appreciate your comments on the cleaning routine.

elmerdeer · « **Reply #5 on:** September 11, 2004, 04:02:13 PM »

Hi spartan I have the encore .50 the best combo i have fired and i have tried a vast selection of pr bullets From the 195 duplx to the 300gr .44 cal.The 240 dead center shot well with 3 Pyro pellets 150grs 1.25 inch groups. But the rest of the dead centers did not group so well, so I tried the T/C shockwaves 250gr with 3 T7 pellets 150grs, and put 3 bullets in one hole and then I tried the 300 shockwaves and 1 inch groups, I was amazed at the accuracy of the shockwaves. All this at 100 yards, and the 250's at 200 yards 2 inch group. At 50 yards they were going in 1 hole. I was Impressed try them maybe they will work for you,hope this helps.

Spartan · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2004, 04:38:17 PM »

Elmerdeer,
Do your Shockwaves fit into the sabots well? I.E. do they sit on the bottom of the sabot so that the petals lay flat against the bullet?

donedidit · « **Reply #7 on:** September 12, 2004, 02:17:28 AM »

Quote from: Spartan

Elmerdeer,
Do your Shockwaves fit into the sabots well? I.E. do they sit on the bottom of the sabot so that the petals lay flat against the bullet?

Spartan - Like Elmerdeer, I shoot an encore and have had great success with the 250 gr. SSTs. My rifle shot a 5/8" group with 90gr. of T7 at 100 yds (the first two shots went through the same hole). To answer your question the petals of the sabot do in fact lay flat against the bullet and moreover the bullet sits deep into the sabot which, in my opinion, gives it great stability when loading. I've been struggling with the 220 gr. Dead Centers and notice that they do not sit as deep into the sabot and that the petals "flair" just a little when the bullet is seated.

I know the 250 gr. SST's may not shoot as flat as you'd like for the extended range you are talking about but a little holdover and you'd be in business it the 250's shot well for ya.

Spartan · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2004, 02:34:45 AM »

Thanks Donedidit. I agree with you that accuracy is more important than trajectory. I might just have to go with a heavier bullet and less powder, since this seems to be the trend for those having success. That being said, is there anyone out there who is having good luck with bullets of 200 grains or less and 110gr of T7 or more? (Preferably in a 50 cal Omega)
Thanks guys.

elmerdeer · « **Reply #9 on:** September 12, 2004, 04:07:23 AM »

Spartan I like the way they fit into the sabot nice and snug. I also checked the sabots of the sst's and the difference is that the s/wave sabots are thicker than the sst sabots even though the bullets are the same, so they fit into my encore nice and snug not as loose as other bullets maybe thats why they are more accurate than the others I tried.

smoky · « **Reply #10 on:** September 13, 2004, 03:47:56 AM »

I am shooting the 200 grain DC with 110 gr 777 FFFg at about 1" @ 100 yds in my Encore 50 cal. It is the only load I have been able to shoot well over 90 grains. The DC's as a whole seem to shoot better in both my Encore and my Knight Wolverine at lower charges.

BTW, the 220 DC with 80 grains of 777 FFFg in the Knight Wolverine set off by a #11 cap is shooting one ragged hole at 100 yards.

Smoky

Spartan · « **Reply #11 on:** September 13, 2004, 11:22:55 AM »

Guess I should have bought the Encore.... I almost did!

elmerdeer · « **Reply #12 on:** September 13, 2004, 02:28:13 PM »

I hear the omega is very capable of achieving sub 1moa groups so try a few different loads and maybe if possible lighten trigger pull.

Spartan · « **Reply #13 on:** September 13, 2004, 04:08:27 PM »

I believe it can shoot some very impressive groups, but can it do so using 110gr of T7 or more and a bullet weighing 200gr or less? I haven't seen anyone post this combination. :cry:

Vapour · « **Reply #14 on:** September 14, 2004, 07:54:14 AM »

Just to add my two cents. I'm shooting 90 grains of FFFg 777 and 200 grain shockwaves out of a .50 cal Encore. My best group has been a 0.6" center to center three shot group with consistent sub MOA grouping. I started out trying to shoot 100-110 grains of powder with this bullet and was getting 4 inch+ groups. Backed it down 10 grains and got sub MOA performance. Thompson Center's barrels (I think they use the same blanks for the encore and Omega) seem to be extremely accurate up to a certain velocity, and above that velocity (which varies from rifle to rifle) groups immediately open up.

I was also able to get 220 grain dead centers to shoot sub MOA with 90 grains of FFFg 777 at a chronographed speed of 1875 fps +/- 30 fps N=5. I later switched to the shockwaves since they cost about half as much and grouped a bit better.

Did your brother recently (last 4 years) graduate from Michigan's MSTP program?

AndyHass · « **Reply #15 on:** September 16, 2004, 07:50:25 AM »

I got the 200 Shockwave shooting at 110 grains FFg 777....but I had some problems with my gun's consistency and will attempt to replicate it this weekend now that I have bedded the thing. I am going to find the max accurate charge for this and the 240 DC.

Spartan · « **Reply #16 on:** September 17, 2004, 11:46:37 AM »

Vapour, Thanks for the detailed reply.

My brother is currently a 2nd year Fellow at U of M in pulmanary critical care. I'm not familiar with MSTP.

Andy Hass: I anxiously await your results!

Nic_58 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2004, 05:10:17 PM »

I tried 200 gr. Shockwaves w/ 105 gr. T7ffg yesterday out of my Omega .50 stainless. I only shot 6 rounds but the six shot group measured 1.16" @ 100 yards. Next time at the range, I will start out with this load and maybe try it with 110 grs. T7. My initial impression of this load tells me that it may have a lot of potential as a whitetail deer load.

Spartan · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2004, 07:15:35 PM »

Nic_58,
Are the sabots for the 200gr Shockwaves royal blue?

Do the bullets nest deep and straight in the sabot?

Mine didn't and they shot like crap. I wish I had the results you did. That is a terrific group for 6 shots...

AndyHass · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2004, 08:27:17 AM »

Shockwave sabots (200gr) are royal blue. I usually push the bullet down to the base of the sabot firmly, causing the petals to flare slightly. The QLA on the Omega accepts this nicely.

Nic_58 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 22, 2004, 03:04:06 PM »

Quote from: Spartan

Nic_58,
Are the sabots for the 200gr Shockwaves royal blue?

Do the bullets nest deep and straight in the sabot?

Yes, like Andy Hass said, the 200 gr. Shockwave sabots are royal blue but the bullets don't nest deep and straight into the sabot like the sabots I have used for a .45 caliber bullet. As a matter of fact, just by looking at the Shockwave 200 gr. bullet sitting in it's pretty blue sabot, you would never think that the thing could even be remotely accurate because the bullet doesn't want to push down to the bottom of the sabot and when it does, the petals of the sabot flare out at the top. But at the range, I pushed the bullet down in the sabot as far as I could and then set it into the QLA of my Encore, lined it up square and started it with a short starter, then on down with a Knight range rod. I was really surprised at the accuracy of them though. They shot excellent for me. I swab between every shot with Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine, both sides of a wet patch, then both sides of a dry patch. I also hand weigh all my Triple 7 on a digital PACT scale for consistency. I am using the .25 ACP breech plug conversion also. The gun is topped with a Leupold VX-II 3x9 and is shot off a steady benchrest front pedestal and rear bag. Average muzzle velocity with 105 gr. T7ffg and 200 Shockwave was 2105 fps (7 shots total) measured 10' from the muzzle. Don't give up on the 200 gr. Shockwave, it performed great out of my gun and it should do well out of your's also.