Author Topic: CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?  (Read 3878 times)

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Offline Big Paulie

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« on: July 01, 2004, 09:48:05 AM »
Dear Guys,

  I have been thinking about buying a new bolt action 22, and I have pretty much narrowed it down to these two rifles (both with walnut stocks).

  Assuming that money is not an issue, does anyone have any comments about one versus the other on the basis of quality or accuracy?  I want the best out-of-the-box rifle I can get.  I am not interested in buying a "project."  (I've got enough of those on my desk at work.)

   Thanks for all info.

Big Paulie

Offline Lawdog

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2004, 10:01:07 AM »
Big Paulie,

I went with the Ruger when I wanted to get a bolt action .22.  I went with the Ruger for two reason.  I know Ruger will back up their product and I wanted to buy American.  In fact I bought 2 Rugers, 1 long rifle, 1 WMR.  I didn't like the triggers on them but Timney has a low cost answer for that.  My vote is to get the Ruger.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline crazyjjk

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I have both
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2004, 10:09:30 AM »
I have both a Ruger 77/22 and CZ 452's. I will say that all the CZ's I have and the Ruger are about the same in the accuracy dept. The only difference is to make the CZ's into shooters it took about $14 each with shipping (Brookies trigger kit). To make the Ruger a shooter I had to send it for 7 weeks to Conneticut Precision Chambering (Randy does a great job) to have the bolt tightened, chamber worked on, barrel mounted better and match crown cut. This cost $135 with shipping. I have to say they are both great rifles but for out of the box accuracy I would go CZ. >John

PS: Have had a problem with one CZ. Shoots extremely small groups but it has been giving me fits because after around 200 rounds the Point of Impact rises. This has been going on for around 1500 rounds and I have not figured it out yet. Sooner or later I will get to what the problem is.

Offline semperfi

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cz vs. ruger
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2004, 11:06:58 AM »
I had a ruger 77/22. I loved the way it fit, I loved the magazine, the weight, the wood. It was a great rifle except it was ordinary in the accuracy dept. I tried at least 30 types of ammo in it - no luck - my old remingtons and mossbergs were better. I tried a CZ and I've never looked back; I now have 10 CZ's (and sister BRNO) of various incarnations but all with the same bolt action. The factory trigger is pretty good, but it can be improved with the Brookie kit or some parts and springs from Brownells. The ruger is attractive also for the possibility of aftermarket barrels and stocks; but by the time you do that, you could have bought a CZ and been done with it.
I sold the ruger....good luck...

Offline oneb

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2004, 12:56:15 PM »
My Ruger 77/22 BVZ is a great rifle! It hefts like a real hunting rifle, shoots under MOA at 50 yardfs from a rest, and is straight factory! Same rattley two piece bolt, 4lb plus trigger, and bedding! My only out of the box Ruger shooter in a substantial collection.

It really likes Federal Gold Match which is a little expensive but hell if a good wopman likes good Bourbon....give it to her!

oneb

Offline TennesseeNuc

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2004, 06:51:46 PM »
Paulie,
CZ hands down.  I have yet to see a CZ that wasn't a great shooter out of the box.  Also, CZ's don't seem to be as pickey about their ammo as most 22's seem to be.
Best,
TnNuc

Offline Darrell Davis

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2004, 07:10:25 PM »
:D Hey there .22 shooters,

This is just IMHO, but in the process of looking for a new .22 rifle this past winter, I looked at the CZ.

Now it may just shoot like a house-a-fire, but for me the total package weighs in the decision and the CZ didn't make the cut.

I was also considering a Cooper or a Kimber, but not quite prepared to part with that level of funds.

I also don't have a problem with a custom rifle built on a solid action and at this point if I wanted a quality .22 between the CZ and the 77/22 I would open the package from Clark Custom - check out their web site - and un-pack my new "out of the box" Clark Custom 77/22.

Their custom rifle on the great 77/22, still has the basic good looks of the Ruger, the standard scope rings, the fantastic 10 shot clips, and a trigger which breaks like glass.

It is a bit heavier, mine is about 8 1/2lbs. w/ a 3x9x33mm EFR Leupold scope, but shoots great and is IMHO just a much nicer rifle then the CZ.

Keep em coming! :wink:
300 Winmag

Offline Zachary

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2004, 02:41:43 AM »
I was in the EXACT same position you were....CZ or Ruger.  Well, after much research and thought, I ended up buying the CZ.

Zachary

Offline Questor

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2004, 07:51:37 AM »
Ruger has better cosmetics, but functionally, I believe the CZ is a better rifle.  We have two and we are very happy with them.  When I buy guns I want accurate guns with good triggers. Rugers usually need a new trigger, and they have a spotty reputation for accuracy.  That rules them out.
Safety first

Offline crazyjjk

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2004, 07:57:10 AM »
Quote from: Questor
Ruger has better cosmetics, but functionally, I believe the CZ is a better rifle.  We have two and we are very happy with them.  When I buy guns I want accurate guns with good triggers. Rugers usually need a new trigger, and they have a spotty reputation for accuracy.  That rules them out.


If you ever have a problem with your CZ don't expect help. They make a good product but for the occassional lemon don't bother trying to get any satisfaction as they went to the same customer service school as Remington.
Never have had a problem with Ruger's customer service.>John

Offline quickdtoo

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2004, 10:42:20 AM »
Quote from: crazyjjk
Quote from: Questor
Ruger has better cosmetics, but functionally, I believe the CZ is a better rifle.  We have two and we are very happy with them.  When I buy guns I want accurate guns with good triggers. Rugers usually need a new trigger, and they have a spotty reputation for accuracy.  That rules them out.


If you ever have a problem with your CZ don't expect help. They make a good product but for the occassional lemon don't bother trying to get any satisfaction as they went to the same customer service school as Remington.
Never have had a problem with Ruger's customer service.>John


CZ customer service is great, just ask anyone at RFC! There are numerous posts of contact with CZ, and the response is always positive, from smithy questions to missing or broken parts, even from customer errors, CZ always comes through with replacement parts or rifle repair at NO charge!!!
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Darrell Davis

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2004, 11:32:46 AM »
:D Hello again,

And yep, it is still just IMHO but maybe the reason I couldn't go with the CZ was the fact I was also looking at the Cooper and Kimber rifles.

As stated, the CZ just didn't make the cut. Don't like the clip, don't like the bottom metal etc. and to get the rifle to have the trigger I want/require it will take some work and/or parts.

Soooooo, if I am going to need to do, or have done some work, to get the CZ to the level of shootability I want, why not do the work on a rifle which totals out to be, while not of Cooper quality, a goodly bit above the CZ. Of course, being a bit over the 60 mark, maybe the Ol'eyes are failing a bit, but then maybe it has something to do with knowing what I like.

I realize the clip on the Cooper and Kimber, as with the CZ, is not flush with the bottom of the rifle like the 77/22. However, especially in the case of the Cooper I could learn to live with the "problem" if push came to shove.

Plus, with a 77/22 Clark Custom I still get to use one of the best .22 rimfire clips (10 shot!!!) ever designed as well as having all the other things which, for me, make the Ruger likable.

You folk really need to take a look at the Clark Customs. They do a right fine job and produce an excellent rifle in their 77/22 conversion. And yes. it is at a price higher then the CZ, but as usual in most things, We do get what we pay for.

Glad we have something to discuss. As soon as I get all you folk to come around to my (the correct) way of thinking this is going to be one real dull
forum! :lol:  :-D  :-D  :lol:

keep em coming! :wink:
300 Winmag

Offline crazyjjk

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2004, 03:29:00 PM »
quick2doo wrote:
[CZ customer service is great, just ask anyone at RFC! There are numerous posts of contact with CZ, and the response is always positive, from smithy questions to missing or broken parts, even from customer errors, CZ always comes through with replacement parts or rifle repair at NO charge!!![/quote]

Wrote to CZ about this rising POI problem. Their reply was to pillar bed my rifle.
Wrote to CZ again about this rising POI issue stating I was dissappointed that I should have to do this much work (scope and mount switching, stock relieving, their suggestion of pillar and glass bedding) just to get one of there new rifles to just shoot acceptable. More out of principle of standing behind your quality than the actual work. Here is the reply I received from CZ.

From: "Mike Eagleshield" <gunsmith@cz-usa.com>
To: "'Info'" <info@cz-usa.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: FROM CZ-USA WWW - Disappointed with CZ


> Thanks for the feed back. Good luck and good shooting.


If that is great service I would hate to be bad service. Very dissapointed will not be buying anymore CZ's. They lost a customer who buys three or four firearms a year. Lately about 1/2 of these have been CZ's both rimfire and centerfire. They lost a decent customer who will not hesitate to tell others of his view of CZ service.

Offline quickdtoo

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2004, 04:32:47 PM »
Sorry to hear about your poor experience with CZ, I read all 4 pages of your saga at RFC. Yours is the first negative experience I've seen with CZ and certainly an exception, I've read too many good things about CZ to believe otherwise. How's the bedding project going? I pillar bedded my American 17hmr after the first time I shot it and it helped a lot, went from ~moa to .6-.75moa @100yds Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline crazyjjk

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2004, 02:31:35 AM »
Tim, Hope my message did not seem like it was attacking you because it was not meant too. I too had heard many good things and in fact have had many good experiences with CZ products (I also own some CZ centerfire rifles). I am just frustrated with this gun as the POI change is not slight, well over 10 inches in 1500 plus rounds and shows no sign of ending and I can't even get CZ to look at the gun. Heck I would even pay for it if it turned out to be the "duh" factor on my part. I am not afraid to admit to my errors.  I just do not think a consumer should "have" to go to the drastic measures such as pillar bed a new rifle just to get it to shoot anywhere near acceptable. I am not complaining because my rifle out of the box will not shoot 1.0 moa. I would just like the rifle to quit moving 2 plus inches every couple of hundred rounds. As is, this rifle is totally useless for what it was advertised for. I feel this was a problem warranted the company at least look at it, obviously CZ did not think so. Thus my remarks about poor customer service. Again if my message felt like I was attacking you I apologize.>John

Offline Darrell Davis

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2004, 03:01:05 AM »
:D Morn'in Crazyjjk,

Not having done business with CZ, can't say anything about their customer service, but from what I have seen of their ads at least you weren't misslead like I was with some early TC "classic" ads.

I agree that CZ should do more then give you a "thanks for your input," type reply. And yes, I think a company should stand behind - to the point of returning the bucks if need be - their products.

You can read all about my experience with TC in this forum if you are really interested, but it does appear that CZ was at least reasonable in their ads rather making grand claims in print which they were not willing to back.

Good luck and keep em coming! :wink:
300 Winmag

Offline crazyjjk

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2004, 04:26:37 AM »
Probably should be a forum about bad experiences with companies. Maybe we who have problem could learn how to deal with customer  service lapses and marketing lies of certain companies. At least consumers who purchase firearms and firearms related products could kind of track companies who are the worst offenders by looking at the number of unhappy posts about a company.>John

Offline Darrell Davis

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2004, 02:21:55 PM »
:D Yes indeed shooters, and boy are we lucky to have these problems.

Some folk are just lucky to have something that goes bang and doesn't land them in jail because they have it at home.

Bringing it back to the CZ OR Ruger (of course) I have heard horror stories about Ruger customer service and yet they have bent over backwards on the few problems I have had. One of which was caused by a REAL DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!! move on my part. Maybe they paid the frieght because my letter had then rolling  :-D  on the floor over what I had done.

However, the Clark Custom 77/22 (CRuger) still gets my vote for best "out of the box" rifle between the two. "Out of the box" is,  as I recall, what the person starting this thread wanted. Mine is just that, out of the box, even if it is a box from Clark Custom. And yes, I would say it is a step above even a standard       77/22.

Keep em coming! :wink:
300 Winmag

Offline Gary O

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2004, 01:18:42 PM »
I have owned my last Ruger bolt gun. Way too much trouble getting them to shoot. My CZ just seems to work the way we all want our rifles to these days. Add a Brooke trigger kit and a 4x12x40 scope and you'll never look back. Your results may vary...God bless.

Offline gunnut69

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2004, 07:20:32 PM »
I've 5 CZ's as of now(looking really hard at a FS) but have yet to see one that wouldn't outshoot a 77/22 box stock.  I suppose is we invested $135 in the Ruger it might be a bit better but a fully adjustable sear is available from Brownells (not sure of the price but under $75) that will bring them back in line.  The CZ'x trigger is adjustable yourself if you'd like and can follow reasonable instructions.  The Ruger definitely has the best magazine but the CZ's work just fine and it allows a slimmer profile than the wide load profile of any with the Ruger rotary.  If you don't like the plain wood a bit more gets you one of the deluxe models with fancier stock...  I prefer the LUX.  Looks a little european but the first day at the range convinced me..  Two more (1 for each kid) never brought a change of mind.  The 2 FS carbines(527's) also have the mag in front of the guard but the hornet out shoots a Kimber also in 22 Hornet that I already had.  The 223 model shoots so well it's almost boring... if it wasn't such fun hitting everything you shoot at.  If all you want is a great shooting rifle you can pick up the lowest priced version of the 452 for well under $200.  With a good scope and ammo it likes it'll shoot under 1/2 inch at 50 yards and under an inch at 100, what more do you wish??
gunnut69--
The 2nd amendment to the constitution of the United States of America-
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Offline crazyjjk

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Have to eat crow
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2004, 03:23:16 PM »
Well I guess I have to eat crow. Anybody here know a good way to make it?

I received a personal phone call from Alice Poluchova, President of CZ-USA. Said she received my letter and was sorry for the mix up in customer service. I told her I just wanted a little help in getting my rifle straightened out. I was astounded by her reply: She said have the rifle be ready to be shipped in three days. They would have the rifle picked up by UPS and as soon as they received it they would ship me a new rifle..
I was astounded. Talk about service! Remington and a few other firearms manufacturers need  to take lessons. Made a lifelong  CZ fan out of me. Guess I will have to go put that CZ-550 in 9.3x64 on lay away.>John

Guess know I would have to say customer service wise CZ get the nod. Accuracy wise other than this one off rifle my centerfires have been astounding. Looks like I will have to put that CZ 550 in 9.3X64 on layaway.

Yum this crow tastes good. Cough Cough Gag Gag.

Offline Darrell Davis

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2004, 05:35:43 PM »
:D Even'in crow eaters,

I think the best way to fix crow is as follows.

Take one fresh crow, I prefer crows which have been head shot as it usually ruins less breast meat.

Clean crow as quickly after harvest as possible and no more then 30 minutes later, taking care to get all the pin feathers removed from the legs. If done quickly enough there will be no need to scald or singe the bird as the pins will come clean with the rest of the feathers.

Dress the bird and cool ASAP.

Take 1/2 cube of real butter per bird, 1/4t each of salt & pepper. Add 1/2t of your favorite chile seasoning and a couple good shakes from the Tabasco bottle. Melt/combine the above over low heat taking care not to burn the butter, allowing it only to turn to a light brown color.

Crow seems to have little flavor in and of itself, so proper seasoning and cooking is of great concern.

Marinate in the frig. for 2 hours, turning the bird every 30 min. to assure complete coverage with the seasoned butter.

Wet a cedar shingle completely - size depends on the size of the bird - but allow at least an inch on all sides of the bird. You may need to weight the shingles to help them stay submerged until soaked through.

When the shingles are about ready, turn your oven on to broil, using a med. broil temp.

Place the birds, breast up on the shingles and pour the butter mix over all the birds equally.

IMPORTANT TIP. The birds are quite oily so it important to place a large pan in the bottom of the oven to catch the drippings.

Place the shingles containing the crows into the oven taking care to maintain clearence between the birds and the sides of the oven.
Rotate the birds around the oven every 5 - 7 minutes so as to cook each bird equally and evenly.

Cook until the edges of the shingles just start to char at the edges, a total of about 18 - 20 minutes.

Remove the drip pan, using the drippings to make a delightful brown  gravy which is great served over toast or mashed potatoes.

Oh yes, don't forget to clean up the kitchen, oven etc. as well as carry out the remaining shingles. Whatever you do, don't try running those crows down the garbage disposer as their so tough your going to be out some major repair bills not to mention the dis-favor of the little lady.

Enjoy the gravy and keep em coming! :-D
300 Winmag

Offline lilabner

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Didn't you forget something?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2004, 05:04:15 AM »
Aren't you supposed to throw out the crows and eat the shingles? :)

Offline Darrell Davis

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2004, 02:22:31 PM »
:D Afternoon lilabner,

In some cases you would be correct. However, cedar shingles tend to have a lot of splinters which tend to cause some bad infections. So, being as how nothing wrecks a good meal of spuds and crow gravy quite as quick as a festered splinter in the tongue I like to throw out the shingles along with the crow.

Now if a person was to use a nice piece of White Pine from Ol'Ideeeho, there would not be nearly as much problem with splinters. The only down side to such a change in the basic preperation of the crow gravy is the fact that you loose a lot of taste by not using the cedar shingles.

Just a word of caution, we had an Ol'feller, quite a story teller as I recall, lived up in the hills a bit East of here, who was a bit down on his luck. Sad to say he passed on a couple of winters ago and some cross country skiers from the city found him a bit worse for wear in his cabin.

Admittedly he was in a condition where a cause of passing was a bit hard to establish, but from what the officials could determine from the exam of the body and the pile of small bones found in the Ol'cabin, it appears he died from an over dose of crow meat.

Anyway, the word is out around here that if your going to tell stories, be careful just what you say or you might end up eating crow which might prove to be the beginning of your end.

Keep em coming! :lol:  :-D  :lol:  :-D
300 Winmag

Offline KF9VH

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2004, 05:12:42 PM »
I have both. CZ with out a question. The ruger is nice but the CZ is"more" gun and it has a better price.

Offline Mr_Christopher

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2004, 11:55:02 AM »
Even with the dog choking price of a 77/17, initially I was planning to get the Ruger.  The better educated I became on the subject the less interested in the Ruger I became.  

I ended up going with the CZ American.  I'm glad I did.

But obviously most Ruger owners are happy with their decision and most CZ owners are as well.  

Oh, and if you want to hear more abotu the "terrible" customer service at CZ read THIS thread:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=38011

ps.  I am not anti-Ruger. I plan to buy a 10/22 in a couple of months,  right after I buy another CZ American in 22. :-)

Offline gunpilot

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2004, 07:48:43 AM »
I have a cz 452 22 LR that is a real shooter!  I bought a ruger 22 mag that shoots lousy groups, and the magazine will not even feed shells. I traded it in on a cz 22 mag.

Offline His lordship.

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I have both, the CZ and the Ruger.
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2004, 12:37:56 PM »
I like variety, so I have both, the CZ 452 in .17 HMR and the Ruger 77/17.  Which is better?  The CZ is more accurate and better balanced, the Ruger has a slightly heavier trigger pull.  I prefer the Ruger's 9 shot flush magazine over the CZ's 5 shot.

The Ruger has the option of a Timney trigger kit to lighten it, and after market barrels that a regular person can change out.  The CZ's barrel is threaded in.

You should get both, I really like the .17 HMR cartridge, and my 2 rifles are different enough from each other to keep shooting this excellent cartridge on a regular basis.

I was even thinking of getting a third rifle in .17 HMR!

Offline bchannell

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2004, 02:34:25 PM »
I was reading this old post and wanted to add an aside to it.
I've been looking for a top notch .22 bolt gun without spending a mint, so I first bought a Ruger 77/22. I got it on a trade with a shooting pal. The balance was not what I would have liked but it shot pretty well. The darn thing simply refused to feed from the magazine, no matter what I did. Got tired of messing with it. Bought a used Kimber Hunter for a steal. Nice gun, pretty darn accurate, wouldn't feed from the mag without buggering the top bullet remaining in the mag. A little polish on the bottom of the bolt pretty much solved the problem. Not one to set on my laurels, and an adventurous sort, I bought a CZ 452, wouldn't feed from the mag, would you believe it???? After much shooting it turned out to be a rough fitting bolt. Things cleared up, and it shot really well, easily as good as the Kimber for half the price. I couldn't warm up to the CZ so I traded it for a brand new 504 Remington. Would you believe it shoots and feeds perfect. I had a bad scope on it at first and it scared me, but after figuring out the problem, the darn thing will outshoot the Kimber every once in a while. It is tight and slick. I only wish it had a little more forward weight, in the barrel, to give it a slighly better balance, but it ain't bad. It costs a bunch but it works, and from what I read on the net, that ain't usually the case with the 504.

Offline bchannell

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CZ 452 American vs Ruger 77/22?
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2004, 11:33:28 AM »
After much shooting and some consternation, I've changed horses again. I couldn't warm up to the 504's stock and sold it at the range one day to a fellow who had wanted one for a while and had heard all kinds of bad reports on them. Once he shot this one, he was sold. Concentrating on the Kimber, I began to have feeding problems again, which really aggrevated me. I got so mad I sold it. I probably should have sent it to Kimber for service, but I didn't like the bolt setup, (full rotating bolt). I sold it to my next door neighbor, so it's close at hand.
Being stuck without a good bolt .22, I happened on another CZ 452 American. It looked perfect and I couldn't pass it up. Well, to make a long story short, it feeds perfectly, shoots very well, balances like I like, and is good looking. I had a lemon in the feeding department before with CZ, but this one is perfect. I shot a 50 yard one hole group the first day out. Did a trigger job and now it's niiiice. All this for $340.