Long Range Handgun Shooting with Encores and Contenders

[haroldclark]

This past February, 2004, I started a monthly Long Range Handgun Shoot at our Rifle Silhouette Range (Sacramento Valley Shooting Club near Sacramento, California).  The Rifle Silhouette Range consists of steel animal and bird targets.  The Chickens are at 200 meters (220 yards), Pigs at 300 meters, Turkeys at 385 meters and Rams at 500 meters.  We shoot on every second Saturday of each month.

 We had 4 shooters at the first match.  On Saturday, 9/11, we had 12 actual shooters and another 4 people watching while they are waiting on thier guns.  Each shooter will shoot at 10 tartets at each distance for a total of 40 shots at 40 targets. The high score yesterday was 37 out of 40 with an Encore in 6.5 WSSM from Virgin Valley.  

However, the top score so far is a 39/40 and shot from a 15" 7-30 Bullberry (AI) Contender.  The second highest score was 38/40 with a factory TC Contender 14" 7mmTCU.   The 38 score ruled for several months.  My highest score is 34/40 with a 7mm TCU factory gun.  All 7mm shooters use the Hornady 162 gr Amax bullet, but the 30/40 shooter uses the 162 gr. btsp Hornady.  One gentleman makes his own 30 caliber bullets similar to 168 grain Match King for his XP-100.  The 6.5 shooter uses a 140 Grain Amax.

Yesterday, I tried something new and used a 308 15" Encore with a JP Howitzer Muzzle Brake(I wouldn't recommend the Brake to anyone) with CAST BULLETS.  After shooting the chickens, pigs and turkeys, I was sporting a 20 our of 30 targets and the misses for the most part were shooter error.  I switched to a more powder cast bullet load for the Rams and it didn't work well.  I only took down 2 out of the 10 Rams. The same load in my 308 CZ Varmiter Rifle will take Rams 8 out of 10 times if I can manage the wind.
Final score was 22/40.  It was fun though and my spotter really did a great job with our ever changing wind.  At 500 meters, it is not uncommon to have to hold 3 to 6 FEET of wind (either left or right) when shooting cast bullets at lower velocity.  
What a kick in the pants to shoot long range with any handgun.  I would recommend it for anyone to try.

I shot Pistol Silhouette in the 80s, but it kind of dried up in California.  We still have a range for it, but 3 years ago, my shooting buddy and I tried the 500 meter range and haven't gone back to the 200 range except occasionally.

Harold Clark

[KYODE]

nice post harold. i'd like to hear regular reports on your shoots, and what people shoot that works well. interesting stuff......since there's nothing like that around here. :roll:  

[haroldclark]

What works best first of all is concentration and then firearm and bullet come in next.  I'm glad you asked.

In our first Shoot, an old boy with the 30 BR XP-100 was the high scorer with a 35/40 and he had plans to go on up to 40.  He hasn't shot a 35 since.  He loses his concentration, aparenty.  Of course, it does rattle him when I tell him that we c-clamped all of his pigs to the rail so he can't knock them off.  Nah, that's not it.

Anyway, two of my friends ordered barrels from Virgin Valley, went to the 100 yard line and printed 1/2" groups with their muzzle brakes and all.  They have fired at three Shoots.  They are competitors, but not absolute 40 shooters.  40 has never been achieved yet, but I do see it if one day everything comes together for one of us.  I don't know why they haven't shot a 40 yet, except there is always some little thing like a sight setting, mirage change, wind or a boiling mirage.  The spotter must read all of the changes and it takes a lot of practice.  Without a good spotter, this type shooting will be very frustrating.

A bit issue is recoil.  To shoot a 308 in a 15" Encore with a full house load is tolerable for 10 shots of so.  During one of our shoots, you may shoot 6 sighters at each bank (4 banks) and then you will shoot 40 more rounds for a total of about 64 or more shots.  Recoil is like body punches with a boxer.  It doesn't knock hime out right away, but it is cumulative and it weakens performance.  Ultimately, recoil will cause the shooter to duck and dodge.  That works in boxing, but a minor movement causes a severe miss even at 200 meters.

That being said, what works best starts with a 7mm TCU with a 162 Grain Hornady bullet?  I've tried 168 grain Sierra MKs in several TC 7mmTCUs and it doesn't work.  The 7mm TCU will work great, but then the wind factor comes into play and more velocity helps fight the wind.  Learn to read the wind and the Mirage and a 7mm TCU will do the job.  The 7mmBR is another great one with mild recoil and it will get about 250 more fps that the TCU. (I have one on order from Van Horn in 7 BR).  I already have a 15" Encore barrel, but I want a little more barrel for more velocity and a muzzle brake.  I think the 7mm BR will be the ultimate for my game.  That remains to be seen, though


I will list the top scores for the past 7 months below with the cartridge and bullet:

February 34/40  XP-100  30 BR 2000 fps  168 gr Corbin made bullet

March  38/40  TC Contender 7mm TCU  1860 fps  162 gr Horn BTSP

April  31/40 TC Contender 7X30 Bullberry AI 15" 2200 fps 162 Horn Amax

May   No shoot

June  36/40 Encore 7MM-08 AI Virgin Valley 18.5" 2400 fps 162 Amax

July   38/40 TC Contender 7X30 Bullberry AI 15" 2200 fps 162 Horn Amax

August  34/80  38/40  TC Contender 7mm TCU  1860 fps  162 gr Horn BTSP

September 37/40 Encore 6.5mm WSSM Virgin Valley 18.5" 2600 fps 140 gr amax.

We set the Rams slightly hanging off the rail so they will go down with the handgun velocities of 1850 fps.  Otherwise, we could not knock them down 100% of the time.  However with my Encore 26" 7mm TCU and the Sierra 168 grain MK at 2170 fps will take the rams 100% of the time and even across court.  Our range has 200 steel targets.  The firing lines are lined up to shooting directly at the pigs and Rams and then the other line is lined up for chickens and Turkeys.  Shooting across court is an angle of considerable degrees (I don't know for sure).  With the rifle, I went to the left side of the firing lines and started shooting at Ram #10 which is at a diagonal cross court.  The 2170 fps in the rifle takes the hard set rams 100% of the time.


I am off to load for tomorrow.  I shoot two weekdays every week.  It's a drug, ya know.

Harold Clark

[KYODE]

 maybe i'm lucky there is nothing like that around here. i think i'd love it........maybe too much :shock:

any load suggestions you pass on could possibly benefit hunters out here also. after talking with you recently, i started trying IMR4198, and AA2015 in my 15" .243. muzzle blast is noticably much less with some of the faster powders. accuracy is great, and velocity is at the least acceptable for hunting. much more pleasant shooting those big boomers also. :wink:
for the most part, i'm a whitetail deer hunter, and casual target shooter. i like the task of reloading also. i see no reason why some of your silouette knowledge can't spill over into the sport of handgun hunting.

[haroldclark]

Hey Kyode,


You might be lucky you don't live near here.  It is like a drug snorting the smoke of gun powder.

I am studying a load for my 15” Encore in 308 for reduced muzzle flash and recoil.  I just acquired 2500 180 grain boattail plastic tipped bullets and I gotta shoot them in something.  Normally, when I get a barrel seasoned, so to speak for either cast or jacketed, I don't switch back and forth.  I couldn't pass up the deal on the jacketed bullets and I gotta shoot them in something.

How does this sound?  18 grains of 2400 for 1667 fps with the 180 grainer..

You know, I have suggested heavy bullets to several guys on the forum.  Seems like most hunters want or the suggestion is for them to use screaming fast small bullets.

In my game, I have used 140 grainers in 7mm and 125, 130, 150s in 30 calibers.  But for the most part, I use heavy bullets that pack more retained momentum to knock down steel critters.  I am a believer in the big bullet (weight).  But, like I say above, if I can get away with a lighter bullet, I will use it.

I sent you a spreadsheet a while back with some data on it, but I don’t remember what it was.  

I really would like to have a 243 in a 16.25 " barrel with a twist to stabilize the 105 bullet.  I studied the possibility and decided that I will buy my 7BR barrel next instead.  Simply because I know the 162 grain bullet will do the job for certain.  I like the recoil of the 243, though.  I really ran the gammit looking at a 250 Savage and a 120 grain bullet.  In order to get the possible performance that I want, I would have to used the Berger 115 grain VLD.  Expensive stuff.

In the 7mm TCU with the 162 Grain bullet, I seat the bullet bearing surface a bore diameter into the case neck no matter how far away it is from the lands.
25.6 grains of WC844 (H335) and a Winchester small rifle primer.  In a 14” barrel you will get about 1850 fps.

7mm BR – 28.8 of WC844 (BLC-2) with the 162 Grain bullet and that will produce 2012 fps.  It will shoot 1” groups and less at 100 yards.

308 Winchester in 15” Encore.  When I traded for this barrel, I had cast bullets in mind.  I can sent a 173 grain flat nosed gas checked bullet down the path at 1800 fps with 27.5 grains of Reloader 7.  I firelapped the barrel right after I got it and had to wipe it out once or twice, but after that I have not cleaned it and don’t intend to clean it.  I like that in a gun.  However, I have settled on a fun load of 13 grains of IMR SR 7625 and the same bullet.  With a muzzle brake, it’s like shooting a heavy 22 long rifle.  It will reach 385 meter Turkeys with precision accuracy.  I used to use this load in my Sako 308, but unfortunately I don’t have it anymore. (That’s a long story).

What other cartridges are you interested in?  I’ve loaded jacketed and cast in a large number of rifle and handgun cartridges.

Good to hear from you.

Harold Clark

[xphunter]

Just got back from an IBS 1000 yard match in Pella, IA where they had their first ever handgun 1000 yard class.  We had four handgun shooters.  A fifth handgunner couldn't get his Encore on at 1000 yards so he shot his rifle in light and heavy class.  Three shot XP's and one shot a rear grip BAT action.  3-xp's all were chambered in 6.5-284 and the bat action was chambered in a 338 Lapua Improved.  Best 5-shot group @ 1000 yds. by the handgunners was just over 9 inches.  I also used my XP and competing in the "Light" class too.  Hitting clay pigeons and bowling pins at 1000 yards is just a whole lot of fun.  Can't wait to do it again.  Set my 10 yr. old son up a steel target @ 600 yards and he was hammering it consistently with a 260 Rem specialty handgun.  Yes, he had a great time and so did I

[KYODE]

i bet it was a great time xp  hehe, startin that boy out right.

i have lot's of interest in most calibers harold. i shoot(when i can, or if i hunt). 6br, .243, and 7-08 in encore..........22lr, .223, 6tcu, 30-30AI, and 44 mag in contenders.
my "next barrel" needs to be a powerhouse of some kind. maybe something for long range fun, or a elk thumper. :?  300mag.....338-06.....358x444.......338x444......er?. all kinds of thoughts running thru my head on that one. it may be a ways off though, unless the sun, stars, n moon all line up, and i find a good deal or something. low funding for now. :cry:

[xphunter]

Here is a little more info about the shoot itself.
We had four handgun shooters. We planned on having 5, but one guy couldn't get his 15 inch 30-06 Encore on at 1000 yards so he shot his Ruger #1 rifle in light and heavy class, but next time he will be ready to go in the handgun class. Three guys shot Center-Grip XP's and one shot a rear grip BAT action. The 3-XP's all were chambered in 6.5-284 (2-Broughton Barrels and 1 Krieger Barrel) and the BAT action was chambered in a 338 Lapua Improved (Newakwa). Best 5-shot group @ 1000 yds. by the handgunners was just over 9 inches (and he shot off of a Harris Bi-Pod). I also used my XP and competed in the "Light Rifle" class too. Hitting clay pigeons and bowling pins at 1000 yards is just a whole lot of fun. Can't wait to do it again. Guys, all I can say is that this is an addictive sport!
I set up Erik, my 10 yr. old son up on a steel target @ 600 yards and he was hammering it consistently with a 260 Rem M.O.A. Maximum. Yes, he had a great time and so did I. This is the first time I have ever shot in a 1000 yard competition, but it won't be my last. I expect I will try to have Erik set-up to shoot the handgun class next year some time. I have a 6.5-284 barrel for the MOA that should work good for him.
My 2 best groups for the day were right at 11.5 and 13.5 inches (5-shot groups). I didn't win for group, but I did win for score. This is the only club that I know of that has a handgun class for 1000 yard matches. This a family friendly environment. They even had a fun 100 yard shoot on Friday afternoon. If you get there around noon on Friday you can shoot all afternoon at 1000 at clay pigeons(and several bowling pins). Next time I will have several other handguns set-up for 1000 yd and see how they do.
Here is their web page http://www.iowa1000ydbenchrest.com/
To my knowledge they will continue the handgun class. They also have a stock class (rifle).
I would be glad to give anyone interested an idea of what to expect and what they would need to go and shoot. Eric (Crow Mag), is a lot more informed in this area since he is an accomplished rifle shooter and has been doing this for awhile. Since this shoot is always on a Saturday it allows me to get back to Hutch for Sunday services. Next time I will leave immeadiately after my last relay so I can get back at a more reasonable time. If you live within a 6 or 7 hour drive of Pella, IA I would highly recommend you give it a try.

[haroldclark]

We have a 1000 yard range at our club.  Two of our shooters tried their Encores at 1000 and they were very pleased.  One is the 7-08 Improved and the other was WSSM 6.5mm.  The 6.5 shooter was pleased with his 3.5" group at 600 and he had a 9" group going at 1000 until the wind grabbed him.  I thought that was very good.

Well, I'd love to stay and chat more this morning, but I "Have to Go Shoot" this morning.  I'm loaded up again for the Encore 308 with cast bullets, 30-06 Remington 742 with cast bullets and my 7X57 Mauser grabbed my leg last night when I opened the safe and wanted out.  I've missed playing with the CZ rifle.

XPhunter: Congratulations of your shoot at 1000 yards.  I know that you have posted your velocity on your 6.5/284, but I forgot.  How old is Eric?

Harold Clark

[xphunter]

My son, Erik is 10 years old.  
Eric W. (shoots the 338 Lapua Imp) is in his 30's (guessing).
MV with the Amax is 2782.
Well,  I hope you decide to try your handguns @ 1000 also.  It is a lot of fun and you may just get hooked.

[xphunter]

I visited with Gordy on the phone yesterday and the handgun class is going to continue.  I know of two other guys who plan to shoot in the handgun class already.  One guy just needs a little more prep time and the other plans to build an XP.  The last 1000 yd. match of the year in Pella is October 9th.   I have a committment which I don't think is going to allow me to be there, but I think Marc Sheehan, Eric W., Tim North (Broughton Barrels) and Al F. plans to be there again.
My son, Erik told me that he would like to shoot at 1000 yards also come this spring.  So I plan to have either the 14 inch 260 Rem or the 17 inch 6.5-284 barrels ready to go in the MOA for him to use.  This is a good time to get started in a discipline, when it is new and at the grassroots level.  A 308 class cartridge (260 & 7-08 would be real good) or above with a 14-18 inch barrel (of course you will need to have the right twist to stabilize your higher BC bullets), and a scope of 9x power or higher.  Many of you already have the rigs that are capable of shooting 1000 yard bench.  In a Contender the 223 AI, 222Rem Mag AI, or the 5.6x50R Bellm with  1x6.5 twist, 1 in 7 twist & maybe the  1 in 8 twist with the barrel length in the 16-18 inch range will get you to 1000 nicely.  In fact, A Contender in the 223 AI or 222 Rem Mag AI with the 1-7 twist will equal if not beat most 260 Rem, 7-08, or 308's in handgun lengths for 1000 yard shooting.
Barrels can be no longer than 18 inches.  Brakes are allowed and are not considered as part of the 18 inch maximum.   With the handgun class you also get a spotter to call your shots during the 6 minute sighter period since the recoil knocks you off of your sight picture.

[xphunter]

Harold,
How did your shoot go last Monday?

[haroldclark]

At the shoot last week, I only got 22 out of 40 steel targets.  I was doing fairly well until I got to the Rams.  I only hit 2 Rams that went down with the cast bullets.  I have been shooting the lighter recoiling loads in the 308 with a JP Howitzer Muzzle Brake and letting my right wrist get well again.  I really get a kick out of shooting with cast bullets and I think I can do much better.  Of course, one can screw up, so to speak.  I got on the sight in target at the 300 meter pigs and jumped right in for score and missed the first 3 pigs.  My spotter called for an elevation change and then I ran the next 7 pigs in a row.  I took down 7 Turkeys at 385 meters.  I only hit 6 chickens at 200 meters.  

It is all in fun.  We have discussed setting up classes of firearms for the Modified stuff, like XP-100s with non-factory barrel or stock and the same with Contenders and Encores.  So far, a factory 14" stock TC Contender holds the production class at 38 and another guy with a Bullberry 15" 7-30 Waters (AI) holds the top record of 39/40.  We have guys with 20" barrels with muzzle brakes and etc that have shot as high as 37/40.

My personal best has been 34/40.

I am awaiting delivery of a Van Horn barrel in 7mm BR that is a 1" full bull out to 18.5" and a muzzle brake that will be for a total of 20".

I'm looking to reduce the recoil as much as possible.  I have shot so much in the past 4 years and previously that I have wrist and elbow irritations.  Since 1/1/2000, I have loaded and fired 44,650 rounds of ammo.  I keep a database on all loadings, accuracy testing and notes on how things worked or not.

Well, nice talking with you and the others.

Harold Clark