Hunting with Martinis and .303 British in general

[kombi1976]

I wasn't sure whether to post this on Medium Cals list or Military Surplus but I figure you guys can help me just as much. I'm considering picking up a Martini Enfield in .303 around Christmas or New Year and I was wondering if anyone had experience with this rifle in particular and, if not, general hunting experience with the .303 British cartridge regarding medium to bigger game.

Here in Australia the amount of old SMLE's haunting gun cabinets and still providing regular and effective service after more than 3 quarters of a century use is inestimable. The .303 is regarded as the no-nonsense cal that puts 'em down and keeps them down, particularly. The factory ammo is generally cheap, reloading products(bullets, etc.) inexpensive and the SMLE is also the backbone of the Military/Service Discipline of target shooting.

What there isn't much discussion about is it's use, if it is used, on medium sized deer. Pigs and goats are the regular game for the Brit here despite the fact it packs the sectional density and frontal area for much bigger game.

What are you guys using the .303 for? White tail, elk, black bear, even moose? What's the consensus on it's effectiveness for deer hunting, especially in the older Martini action?

[Mikey]

kombi1976:  the 303 British cartridge is alive and well in the US.  It is still one of the top ten cartridge and component sellers even though the rifles have been out fo manufacture for probably 50 or more years.  It is one of those great calibers that just does not quit.  And, we still see tons of the Mk1 No3 and Mk4 No1s come up at discount houses on a regular basis.

I used one for years (Mk4 No1) that was made by Stevens in the US and she still groups under 3/4" at 100 m for me.  If that was the only rifle I had I would not consider myself undergunned at all.  However, that being said I would not want to tackle heavy bear with it unless I was loading in the 205 gn express loads but for any of the game animals you mentioned, the 303 British will work fine within reasonable ranges.  

Put this way:  properly loaded the 303 Brit doesn't give up anything to the 308 Winchester and even outshot that caliber at the Wimbelton 1000 yd matches a number of years ago, so if you would hunt those animals with a 308 - which is done often enough in this country - there isn't or shouldn't be any problem with using the 303 Brit.  

As for the Martini action - if the rifle is strong enough and in good shape and the barrel isn't too worn out to give you good groups, she should be a sweetheart.  Some of our members have posted pictures of their Martinis and they say they shoot as well as they look.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Doc.2/47]

I'm sure that there are folks around this site better qualified to respond to your post than I am,but-since none of them have come on here yet-I'll take a shot at it.

My general impression is the that the .303 is to the U.K. about like the 8X57mm is to the Germans,and the .30-'06 is to the U.S..They are fairly close in power and are used for similar purposes/animals.

You don't really state what you would be useing this rifle for but I would expect that the .303 would handle any of the animals you mention.I've never hunted moose-and might prefer something with just a bit more power if I were going to-but I know of a lot of Canadians that have used this round on moose without complaint.I wouldn't want to use this round on the big waterbuffaloes y'all got down your way but other than that I'd expect it'd serve for anything you're likely to use it for.

The .303 isn't popular in the U.S.(at least in my part) not because of any fault of the round but because SMLE's are rarely encountered and ammo costs two or three times what .308Win.(7.62 NATO) or .30-'06 ammo costs and is much harder to find.

I had Martini for awhile that had been rebarreled to .225 Win. and it was a very fine and accurate rifle.The only reservation I had about it was that it had no safty which meant not loading until I was ready to shoot right then.That wasn't much of a problem when shooting targets or varments but all that additional movement might not be very good if it was to be used for deer or other spooky animals.I would check the condition of the barrel and action very closely before buying.They've been around for a very long time.

[1911crazy]

If we look at the 303 Britt ammo specs its right over the 30-30(bought ammo) but under the 308win. which is an acceptable performance.  Many hunters across our land still use the famous 30-30 which is the most popular hunting caliber.  Now in my one horse town in Vermont the hardware store carries ammo well very little ammo and he's always got 303britt there along side 30-30 ammo.  And maybe 308win. or 30-06 if your lucky.  I think like the 30-30 the 303 is still popular among the older hunters.  Like any gun the most important thing is the placement of your first shot thats what counts.                                   BigBill

[kombi1976]

You don't really state what you would be useing this rifle for but I would expect that the .303 would handle any of the animals you mention.I've never hunted moose-and might prefer something with just a bit more power if I were going to-but I know of a lot of Canadians that have used this round on moose without complaint.I wouldn't want to use this round on the big waterbuffaloes y'all got down your way but other than that I'd expect it'd serve for anything you're likely to use it for.

The .303 isn't popular in the U.S.(at least in my part) not because of any fault of the round but because SMLE's are rarely encountered and ammo costs two or three times what .308Win.(7.62 NATO) or .30-'06 ammo costs and is much harder to find.

As to use, my main opportunities will be medium game like goats and pigs with the odd medium to large deer like fallow, rusa or red. I haven't really had a chance to explore deer hunting yet as my only centerfire is a .25/303 on a sporterised 1914 Short L.E.. It's flexible, good up to 250yds, but not quite up to deer in terms of energy. It'll stabilise 100gr bullets but no heavier & really shines with 87grainers.

Ammo for the .303 Brit here in Oz is quite inexpensive, certainly no more expensive that .308 or 30-06 ammo. Most ammo (for centerfires over .223) hovers around the $20 to $25 mark per 20 unless it's premium ammo so handloading is far more cost effective. I can score 100 Highland AX .303 cases for $45, 100 Taipan 180gr bullets for $25, $5 a pack of Winchester primers and about $10 worth of powder. That's a saving of around 20 bucks on the first load and stuff just keeps getting cheaper from there. Furthermore the low chamber pressure means the cases don't stretch that much and .303s like heavy bullets, perhaps because they started out as a black powder rounds with 215gr lead pills.

But then, you already would know all that. I suppose the attraction of the martini is both its its comparative rarity & romance of heritage and also that it's a single shot. I think necking up a .303 to .338/303 on a large frame Martini would be really interesting but for the moment I'll try my luck with the Brit. Interestingly Woodleigh makes a 215gr RNSP Weldcore bullet and over a medium distance I reckon it'd be a treat on a big buck.

[kevin.303]

:shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

215 GR JACKETED!! FACTORY MADE!! WHERE? WHO? HOW MUCH?

GIMME,GIMME,GIMME,GIMME!!!

now that i got that out off my system, i say buy any .303 that comes your way and keep it forever. (someone with my user name couldn't possiably be biased!  :wink:  ) for medium rnage shots on big game it is a great round. martinies is wonderful and strong as an ox. i plan to buy one in its original configuration and another one to turn into some sort of totally useless and unneccesary magnum. i would say that in canada the .303 has taken more game than all others combined, with the possiable exception of the .30-30 and the '06

 

[kombi1976]

:shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

215 GR JACKETED!! FACTORY MADE!! WHERE? WHO? HOW MUCH?

GIMME,GIMME,GIMME,GIMME!!!

Here ya go, kevin. Salivate on this. This is Woodleigh's Aussie site.

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/

The 215gr RNSN is a controlled expansion "weldcore" bullet too so it is perfect for big game where you need heavy hits and deep penetration. According to their site Midway distribute them in the US so even if you live Due North you should be able to get your hands on them. To top it off, Woodleigh bullets are factory loaded by Federal & Kynamco for their big bore rounds. They're of equivalent quality to Barnes and Nosler C/T. In fact, Woodleigh began their business making projectiles for double rifles and big game rounds like 450, 500, 577, 600 & 700 Nitro Express, 404 Jeffrey, 505 Gibbs, 416 Rigby, 458 Win Mag & 11.2 Schuler. It's premium gear.
And thanks for the tips.

[1911crazy]

Checkout  MidwayUSA they carry woodleigh bullets and others too and very reasonably priced too.                               BigBill

We've even bear hunted with the 303 too unforntunately my cousin put in FMJ bullets at the time in the dark and we missed a trophy bear we been after for many years the FMJ went straight thru it not doing any damage and the bear still lives today very big now for sure we watched it ever since it was a cub. I'm not sure if it taught us or we taught it but the CHASE and the HUNT sure was fun for many years.  

[cam69conv]

I have a No4 Mk2(f) Original Sniper .303 brit..... Got it last year And used it in its original configuration....Has the adjustable rear sight and all that...Here's the results...Doe 135 field dressed...135 yards One shot Dead deer...Obliterated lungs......Doe 138 field dressed....120 yards...One shot...Head Blown dang near off..(only shot I had).....Buck 205 field dressed...One shot 185 yards (lucky) Heart couldnt be identified  Boar 162 pounds One shot Front shoulder and lungs busted all to heck...All shots were with 180 grain Rem softpoint corlokts....I should think that It will handle any game you want to hunt down under short of the waterbuff and I really wouldnt put it past that either...Kevin.303 is about to get mad as hell at me for this but Ive ordered a Synthetic stock for this weapon and a scope base.....Shes a real shooter and a joy on the shoulder...I would buy another on in an instant if it has the same bore quality as this one...Rifeling was immaculate...Didnt look like it was hardly shot at all and when checked for tightness lets just say it was pristien...Not bad for gettin it PLUS 150 bux for reinstalling a garage door opener with the hardware and stuff already there huh :-D

[kevin.303]

me get mad? naww.. i used to have a few .303's but now i'm back to where i started, my battered bubba'd lithgow.i love the look of wood but i realize if it's going to be used in wet yucky weather, synthetic is the way to go. and it can't get chipped cracked or broken like wood. i had a parker and hale with a drilled and tapped K4 . shot like a dream. and it was an ishapore. just as long as your getting out there and using it. show those magnum and trap snobs what ten rounds rapid looks like.

calling it useless, ugly or garbage is what gets me angry

you..wouldn't like me...when i'm angry...

can i assume you read the "what is it" post and saw my reaction?

[S.S.]

Here is my hunting experience with a .303 Brit.
I have a real bonafide WWII #4 sniper rifle (T3)
so it is plenty accurate. sighted in with regular over
the counter Remington factory loads.
The 8 point Whitetail was between 70 and 80 yards out
and a perfect broadside. The bullet hit dead center just behind
the right shoulder. The deer took one jump up into the air
and hit the ground running. several hundred yards and several
hours later we lost the blood trail !  I have no doubt that the
bullet perforated both lungs but it may not have expanded.
Needless to say, I never found that deer.
I really think it tried to cross a small river and was washed
down stream, but I am not totally sure.

[Rojelio]

S. Sumner. I don't doubt your story, but, if you didn't recover the animal, how do you know where you hit him? I know there is a reasonable explanation. Rojelio

[cam69conv]

Got to agree with Rojelio on that one...If you hit him well then you dang sure shouldnt have had a prob in recovering the animal...Course them ole deer can be some tough critters...Heres a lil story that would interest ya all...8mm Mauser with Winchesters...Bout 65 yards quarterd away there is a nice fat little doe...Nailed it right behind the shoulder...She ran about 25 yards (closer) towards me and was standing behind a tree...I sat there and watched her for at LEAST 2 min..She didnt shake or limp or nothing..She stepped out and I cracked on her again..She ran about 150 yards and dropped..Now here is the funny stuff...First shot I was correct I had NAILED her blowing half her heart out from the looks of it...Second shot I had hit about the 3rd rib back quartering away again blowing the rest of her heart out her chest...The moral of this story is...I dont care what you use be it a .300 win mag or a .25.06 or whatever..If ya dont spine it it can run simple as that..Some of them ole deer got a will to live like no one could ever believe or even comprehend..It can happen...But if you hit them ole lungs its not gonna run 500+ yards with a .303 simply because of the choking and shock...Heart shots can be wierd some run like a banshi and others drop on the spot but simply because it is choking they cant run to far with a nice double lung shot...Thats just my opinion on that but after 600+ deer I kinna have to think my lil ole opinion might mean just a touch...Good luck and sorry you didnt recover that deer...stinks when that happens..Hope it never does again...Ive had a couple of well hit deer with bow get away from me that i didnt find for a couple of days and by that time was ruined and I know it hurts like hell to see it all go to waste...Even though its really not wasted cuzz worms and raccoons and yotes gotta eat too...Good luck to ya

[S.S.]

I could easily see the red patch of fur forming as he departed.
because he didn't run in the direction he was walking, he ran back
the way he had come from and I saw the oposite side from what I shot.
the blood on the ground and trees behind where he was standing
was a very bright red which normally indicates a heart/lung shot.
The trail the deer used through a briar thicket had blood smears
on small sapplings on both sides of the trail which indicates the bullet
had passed through and he was bleeding from both sides too.
I Don't blame the cartridge, I blame the projectile. I don't think it
expanded and I simply punched a .30 caliber hole through him.
I only found one place where he laid down and there was a good deal
of blood there, and there was what appeared to be foam in it.
I have no doubt it was coming from it's lungs.

[cam69conv]

Sounds to me like you didnt wait for a little while before ya went lookin for it....A pushed deer can run a LONG way no matter what the hit except spine...I personally like to give it around 20 min before I start trailing it

[S.S.]

You are correct!
BUT.....
It was beginning to rain and I was afraid
Mother Nature was going to remove the bloodtrail.

[cam69conv]

Kinna figgered...Mother nature is a mean ole heffer sometimes...With a good trail you still could have waited a little bit though...Unless its an absolute downpour sign is still  there..Unless I see it go down I dont generally move untill 20 min or so...Good luck and hope that dont happen again

[kombi1976]

An interesting coincidence. I was at the newspaper shop yesterday and was looking at the hunting magazines & Guns & Game had a decent article about hunting using the .303 round. It had a very nice pic of a Lithgow No.1 Mk3 that'd been fitted with an exhibition grade walnut stock with cheek piece and had it's barrel shortened to 22".

But to come to the point, the writer was building it up to hunt large deer, sambar to be precise, and was loading the Woodleigh 215gn bullet I mentioned before to 2200fps. He was getting 18mm 3-shot groups at 100m, which I believe is 0.71". Not too bad considering it's the heaviest projectile the .303 cartridge was ever loaded for.