beretta model 20 25cal tipup

[dan]

hi guys and gals,
   have a chance to buy one of them small pocket 25 autos, double action,
believe they made them in 84-85, the model 20, single stack. will pay around 130, in about 95% condition, anyone have one, or the 950's
         thanks........dan

[Mikey]

Dan:  I have one of the 950s with the tip up bbl and it's a fine little pocket piece.  Never had a jam or misfire, it's a reliable little center fire pocket rocket.  

I have always used straight ball ammo - I've found that the soft noses don't go fast enough to expand so I've felt there is no need for the added expense for questionably expanding ammo, and factory stuff by Sellier and Bellot, or Winchester, or Remington or any of the others is reliable.  

Somedays when I just don't know what I want to drop into my pocket, the 950 will go in.  I also have a 21A in 22lr but I use both pistols for the same purpose and really don't consider one any better a caliber than the other.  If I sold my 950, I would simply go buy another one, get a half case of ammo, break it in with about 350 rounds, clean it, relaod all the mags and carry it.  However, this is just my opinion.  Mikey.

[dan]

hi mikey,
  thank you for your quick reply. do you think that a 22lr rifle in the same style small auto would be better? i think the 25 would go off all the time, would not worry about a misfire, which could happen with a 22.
             thanks.........dan

[Mikey]

Dan:  I've had and recommended a number of the 21As in the 22lr and in each case they have been fine pistols that functioned each and every time.  To my recollection I cannot recall even having a dud round in one of those pistols.  However, a number of fellas have had bad luck with them and have referred to them as 'jam-omatics'.  

When I got my first one, I just took it to the range with all its magazines (4 extras) and a paper bag full of left over 22 lr ammo - left over from every box I hadn't emptied in the past 10 years.  They were of all mixed brands and flavors, high speed, target velocity, hollow points, truncated nose, solids, etc (if there's any other flavor), and shot the snot out of it until she started getting dirty and slowed down at about round # 350.  I brushed out the chamber and banged out the last 150 rounds without a problem.  

I started mine on a steady diet of Remington Hi speeds (the old golden bullet), and that load works all 5 of those pistols I am familiar with without problem.  That is also what I carry in the pistol.  When I go for a range session, I will empty the full mags into the target, then switch off to some easier loads - 40 gn CCI standard velocity or something of that flavor and play with it for a couple of hundred rounds.  But, after finishing the range session, I will clean the piece and load everything back up with the Remingtons.  That has worked for me for at least 1K rounds through that piece, and she keeps on tickin' without problem.

If you don't have much of a hassle switching handguns (buying one and if it doesn't work right for you taking it back for another) I would say try one of the 21As in 22lr first, and if you don't like it then go for one of the 25 autos.  The centerfire may be more reliable for you.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Old Griz]

I worked in a hospital when I was a young buck and we had two cases that made me question ever getting a .25 for any reason. The brother of one nurse tried to commit suicide by putting a .25 between his eyes and pulling the trigger. It didn't go far enough in to cause any real damage, and he had time to change his mind about life and death.

Another case, a gentleman shot himself in the temple. Three times. Then, a slow learner, he called for an ambulance. After the third shot he changed his mind. Unfortunately, he did die, but not until they got him into the operating room.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this translates to me that the stopping power of a .25 is greater if you throw the gun at someone. I remember Bart Skelton writing that more people are killed by .22s each year than by any other caliber. So between a .22 and a .25, I'd tend to go with the .22.

If anyone has had success with a .25, please write and let us know.

[dan]

howdy,
  would like to thank everyone that replyed to my questions on the 25acp.
i did purchase a super clean 21a, in 22lr. and have shot it, and appears it functions very well, and at 7-8 yards, i shot about a 5 inch circle. not bad being that front sight is hard to see.
  now i need help in findding a small holster for it. someone this board made one out of leather, but cannot find the post. so my new question is, what do you guys use for a holster? just do not want to carry in my pocket with out a holster. thanks in advance....dan

[Mikey]

Dan:  good for ya.  You can improve your groups by putting a bit of whiteout or white paint on your front sight - otherwise, those miniature sights are real tough to line up.  Also, since yours functions well, get yourself a brick of standard velocity 22lrs and learn to skip some cans with that pocket rocket.  Get a bunch of extra magazines, too.  There is nothing worse than trying to have fun when you have to load up that one magazine all the time.  

Uncle Mikes of Oregon makes a pocket holster for the Beretta 21A - I have one and love it.  HTH.  Mikey.  

Old Griz:  I have a friend who took a 25 acp right to the sternum, then chased the bad guy for 3 blocks.  But, I've seen plenty of post mortems where the weapon used was somebodies 25 acp.

Bart Skelton opined about the 22lr and the 25 acp killing more people than any other caliber but, that was due to the very real fact that those were the most inexpensive handguns available and were used by lots of folks in tough crime areas, hence the high incidence of shootings/killings with those smaller calibers.   But, the 25 acp works, no matter how many times this one fella had to shoot himself or how many other failures have been noted.  I have used it before and it works, and that's why I still have one.  One thing I can tell you is that with a small caliber handgun like the 25 or 22lr, you don't use it against the natural body defenses like a hard or thick skull or a heavily muscled chest plate - use it against soft tissue and it will work for you.  HTH.  Mikey.

[gstanfield]

This is my first post on this site, so I'll start off by saying that I have been reloading for about 8 years and shooting since I could hold a gun. The first centerfire I ever shot was a 25ACP, and I currently own a 950. I've never shot anyone with it, so I can't say how well it will do, but I have ran about 2500 rounds through it and it shoots like a dream. I have put down a german shepard with it using one shot at 25ft. With factory ammo, I can shoot about 9 inches at 25yds, but with my handloads, I can get it into about 5-6 inches at the same range. Keep in mind that this is after at least two thousand rounds through this gun, and it took a while to learn how to shoot it proficently. Before I bought this one, I tried a friends Berretta in 22LR. It was a nice little gun, but did jam about once out of every 200rounds or so, and since I had never heard of a 25 jamming (neither my Dad's nor my Uncle's 25's) I decided to go with th 25. I have never had this gun jam, nor have I ever had a misfire. As to the penetration, it is not all that great, but I believe a properly placed round will do the job it is intended for.

George

[michbob]

Reloading the .25ACP?  My, what fun.  You must be a lot more dexterous than me, to handle those little, tiny components. :grin:

Michbob

[gstanfield]

there's definitely a big difference between a 1.2 gr charge of powder under a 50gr bullet and a 76gr charge behind a 250gr bullet. I load for all extreme's, but the main reason for the 25 is cost. I can load FMJ 50 gr bullets for about $6.25 for a hundred rounds.

George