Carcano rifles, love em', like em', or hate em'?

[His lordship.]

On my question of good and bad rifles, the Carcano kept coming up as a bad guy.  I had one for 8 years, it was acquired on a mixed trade, the stock had been cut down for a youth, I was lucky to purchase a brand new replacement stock from a source in Shot Gun News and fix it.  It was a Model 38 short rifle, 6.5 cal., made by Beretta in 1941, with a fixed rear site.  The bore had some minor damage from corrosive ammo being used and not properly cleaned.  The trade came with 3 boxes of 1936 vintage Italian army surplus ammo.

You can shoot them single shot, but they are best with a stripper clip that drops out of the bottom after the last shot and makes a clanging noise.  I bet that was not good in battle as your opponent could hear that.  With the surplus ammo it was an accurate rifle.  It also liked Norma brand, and shot low and to the left with German made surplus ammo.  The bolt was stiff, which required getting used to it, and I think that would have slowed down the rate of fire in battle.  The butt plate seemed narrow, but was not a pressure problem on my shoulder due to the light recoil of the 6.5 round.  

When I took it apart to replace the stock, I found the rifle to be well made, seemingly light and compact, yet rugged.  I ended up accumulating fired Norma brass and 3 types of clips, brass, blued steel, and zinc coated clips.  I wanted to handload but sold the rifle before I got around to it.  I sold it as I did not really like the looks of that particular model of Carcano, I would have preferred the longer barreled model 91, but those are hard to find in any kind of decent condition.

I don't understand why there are so many negative comments on these guns, is it because of the looks, or is it something else?  The Italian army used them in WW1 and WW2, these rifles saw alot of action, despite the mass surrenderings in North Africa in the photos.  The Italian authorities did feel they needed to upgrade the caliber to a .30, and some of them were modified for more hitting power.  The 6.5 is not a bad bullet size.
 
Carcano owners...what bothered you most on those rifles?

Thanks.

[kjeff50cal]

Most were new "only dropped once in WWII".
7) Most used in WW1 was not cleaned until WW2
6) Clip fed only.
5) Senior(s) Berretta were not too kind to manufacturing El Duce's version of the gun and manufactured them accordingly.
4) scope mount??? (I know LHO and his scoped wonder & my Mosins are in the same boat).
3) Progressive Rifling???
2) Ammo, What Ammo? You have a choice of calibers (6.5, 7.5 & 8mm) more ways to screw of if you are a novice (I think that it is the cause of so many blown up actions).
1) The Top Reason why Carcanos are shuned... Stigma (See JFK).

Kjeff50cal

[S.S.]

Crude appearance, rough fit & finish, poor accuracy,
badly balanced, drop free clip design, expensive or
sometimes non-existant ammo, terrible trigger, sloppy
action, doesn't fit the shoulder well for a bigger person
........Etc.......Etc.
I really never found anything that I did like except that
it was Light to carry!
 
Now the Bayonet that was with mine was a thing of beauty!
(These were contracted out) I still have the bayonet and it is
literally as sharp as a straight razor.

[1911crazy]

Ok now these were made by my cousins(kidding) But i never had an interest in Carcano's or Japanese rifles too they just never did anything for me.  I think its the rifle that most think killed JFK that sells it.  But its not the rifle that killed JFK, Lee Oswald didn't do it the hitmen did it Oswald was framed and in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Now with the three hitmen that did it, its the WHO hired them thats the next story and there isn't enough dead yet to tell it.                                                            BigBill

[kjeff50cal]

In other words the "Grassy Knoll" (who ever he is) Killed the Carcano. :-D  :-D  :-D

kjeff50cal

[RB Rooson]

The Carcano is crudely machined, ill-fitted to the stock, uses ammo that maybe only Il Duce can buy, highly inaccurate, and that's all of the good points!!

Hadn't even thought of the JFK connection!

[1911crazy]

Thats what i see the most at gun shows "YOU CAN OWN THE RIFLE THAT KILLED JFK"   Ya I sure do want to own that one!!!!  Who really cares i don't want to own that part of history.  I'd rather own "rifles of the white death"  give me some real history of guns used in battle not BS.  It just tics me off when i see that sign.  It just goes to show you how far people will go to make a sale and a buck?                               BigBill

The next one will be here's the bullet that killed JFK and you can buy it for $5!!!!!  Own a piece of american history!!! :roll:

[Mikey]

Fellas:  I think it was mostly the looks of the Carcano rifle that turned many people off.  In addition, they were first being imported when mil-surp meant 'crap' and the old addage about them being dropped only once sort of enhanced that notion.

I strated playing with Carcanos and the Model 91s (?) back in the mid-60s'.  I worked for a private detective agency that picked up on a request by the Warren Commission to test these rifles for accuracy to see if they (or one) could actually have killed Kennedy at the distance he was shot.  I know I fired at least a dozen of these rifles, all supluses obtained under contract by the testing firm from a local gun shop.  

Some shot terribly, very poor accuracy and when you looked at thebarrel you could see incredible dings on the crowns from being dropped or mishandled.  Others were passably accurate and a couple, including the one I purchased and kept, were very accurate.  I hunted with that rifle, reloading the ammo as the only hunting ammo for it by Norma was far too expensive.  That Carcano carbine (the M38 I think) was what first turned me on to the 6.5 caliber (only now it speaks Swedish).  HTH.  Mikey.

[His lordship.]

I know that some of you fellows have a good library on guns and history.  Was there any Italian sniper using a Carcano noted, Russian front, N. Africa, or even when the Italians split in 1943, with the fighting in the northern part of the country?  It is not easy to get info on the Carcano rifle, I checked on the internet, and it seems that people are obsessed with the JFK assassination, and less on the rifle per se.

I have managed to find some reading on the Italian fighter pilot aces, yes there were a few.  Not real high scores though, Adriano Visconti, with 26 kills, and others.  The Regia Aeronautica and ANR (post 1943 surrender airforce) still produced 102 pilots who qualified as aces by scoring five or more kills, this was predominantly in the Malta area.  It seems that there may have been an Italian that managed to shoot a few of the enemy with his scoped model 91, or did the Italians even have scoped rifles?

Thanks.

[MGMorden]

I've never shot one myself.  My uncle has one (I think in original condition), but he hasn't had ammo for it in a while.  From what I could tell, it was a darned small rifle that didn't shoulder too well for me.  I did a few "throw up" tests and when the rifle was at a comfortable distance sight-wise it was still nearly 2 inches from my shoulder.  

Still, I'm attempting to get all the WW2 Infantry rifles, so eventually a Carcano will be needed.  Far more important specimens to acquire first though .

[kevin.303]

i tried one a collector friend of mine had and it was fun. i'm not one to go in on conspiracy theories but after handling that rifle i was pretty certain the lee harv didn't do it, Marine or not.

[kombi1976]

I've never handled or fired one, although I've seen pics.

But Highland AX produce ammo for them, although it'd probably be special order. That said, the Highland stuff is cheap as chips, and that is really saying something here in Oz. It also got decent reviews from a couple of local magazines. Dunno where it's made but it must be in Europe somewhere because they load for the 7.62x54R, 7x64, 7x65R, 7x57R and 6.5x54 Scheonauer as well as the 6.5x52 Carcano. They also make all of the other regular rounds too.

What has always puzzled me is that if Beretta build such fine handguns and shotguns why did the Carcano come out so bad? Didn't they have any pride?

[Shorty]

'Never had one, but a friend who did said that the barrel unscrewed itself as it was shot!  :shock:

[Runs with Scissors]

Once a man tried to kill a president with a Carcano.
He missed.
A fella on a grassy knoll with a real rifle killed him.

Bill

[kombi1976]

Once a man tried to kill a president with a Carcano.
He missed.
A fella on a grassy knoll with a real rifle killed him.

Bill

Mmmm, perhaps not in the best taste but you've made your point, Bill.
So the construction sucks, but honestly, apart from being stiff, is the action o.k.?
I've heard some just criticisms but they can be laid at the door of poor workmanship or neglect.
Minus their woodwork and barrels are these things a decent design?

[Runs with Scissors]

I didn't mean to be so rude .
Kennedy seems to be the only notoriety around the Carcano.
I had one once. It was not too accurate.
I have only read about poor construction/poor materials issues.
I just didn't like it compared to all my other milsurps.

Bill

[Haywire Haywood]

I read somewhere that the reputation for Carcanos being so inaccurate originated from folk that were reloading for them using standard (.264) 6.5 bullets. They instead use oddball .268 caliber bullets.  Hornady offers one bullet in the proper diameter. It's a .268 160gr round nose.

Ian

[Mikey]

Haywire:  when I reloaded for my Carcano I used the Hornaday 160 gn round nose .264 diameter bullet and my rifle shot very accurately with that.  The diameter of that bore is 264/265 to the best of my knowledge.

Some of the reloading accuracy problems stemmed from barrels needing recrowing, from bores shot out with corrosive ammo or from the use of 'segmented' bullets produced during the war.  One of those bullets was reportedly found on the stretcher that brought John Kennedy into the hospital emergency room.  However, those bullets were designed for perimeter defense and were designed to fragment or segment once they left the barrel, thereby bringing 7 pellets down-range.  Even if they did not fragment coming out the barrel those particular rounds were not very accurate.

Some of the most accurate 6.5 mil-surp ammo I ever shot in that Carcano was made by Winchester, of all people.  But, it shot well.

The 6.5 Carcano round is of medium power but that 160 grain round nosed bullet hits very hard and penetrates very well.  Although they are unsightly and somewhat ungainly rifles, the action is a sound development of the Enfield, Arisaka and Mauser actions and is more than strong enough to handle the caliber.  I never had one come apart on me.

The round is certainly capable of taking medium sized game and when I hunted with one it performed well for me.  Mikey.