Author Topic: vertical stringing in a Savage '99  (Read 860 times)

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Offline Kragman71

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« on: December 30, 2003, 02:54:43 PM »
Hello,
I'm the Guy who announced that he was a new '99 fan,on the earlier thread.
I had a chance to sight it in,and check it out,this morning. It was a poor day for precision shooting,with strong damp wind(blew my Chronograph down),and alternating clouds and bright sun in the eyes.
I fired five different groups at 50 yards and they had an average horozontal dispersion of 1/4 inch. the vertical dispersion was over an inch.
This may only be Operator failure(I had plenty of distractions)along with the weather,but I would appreciate it if you could steer me toward a source for correcting vertical stringing in the Savage '99.
Thanks,
Frank
Frank

Offline savageT

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2003, 04:26:59 PM »
kragman,
Let's start off with a few basic questions:
Model m99 and barrel length?
Shooting off bench w/ sandbags?
What is caliber....300 sav?
Scope or open sights?
Factory loads or Handloads....powder, make and bullet weight?
Were you letting the barrel cool sufficiently after every shot?
Where were you resting the forward bag/forearm?
Were you cleaning the bore after groups?
Did you try the dollar bill test to see if barrel channel was rubbing against barrel?
Did you check muzzle and bore for damage and fouling?

Jim
savageT........Have you hugged a '99 lately?

Of all the things I've lost in my life, I miss my mind the most.

Offline Loozinit

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2003, 06:34:28 PM »
Right.  Check those basics and remove as many variables as you can.  That weather at 50 yards should be of little consequence.  Note:  My 99 will only shoot well at the range for about twenty shots, then it has to cool down for a good long time.  Those things are for light carry and gettin' the meat - not for the bench.  Test it with patience.  It should be deadly accurate at 100 yards.
Loozinit

Offline EDG

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2003, 06:05:19 AM »
Hello,
 If you are shooting off of a bench rest of some sort don't support the forend with just the forward rest or bag. Put your hand under the forend like you are shooting off hand and rest your hand on the bag.
This enables your hand to tell how much force/pressure you are putting on the buttstock with your face. What often causes vertical stringing is a rifle supported between two rests fornt and rear with your cheek pushing down on the rifle from the top. Most of us do not have calibrated faces and the force on the stock varys from shot to shot.
 Ed

Offline Kragman71

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2003, 06:49:48 AM »
HEY!,thanks for the responce.
By the numbers:
Yes,I shoot from a solid bench with an adjustable front post topped with a sandbag and a rear bag.
The rifle is an R with,about 23 inch barrel. The gun is now hooked up to my Outer's Foulout,and it's tough to measure the barrel length,but it is a good barrel.I'm using the Outer's unit because I want to clean and purge the barrel,and then use cast bullets exclusively.
I am using the scope set at 5X
I'm using handloads with Rem corelocks and IMR#4895 powder.
I'm shooting 3 shot groups
3 groups with 150 grain bullets
Wipe bore with a Hoppe's boresnake
3 groups with 180 grain bullets
The first group was discounted because the initial bullet was an inch away from the next 2
My first group with the 180 grainers was clocked at only 2151 FPS,but was a nice 1 hole,round group.
the other 4 were strung vertically.
I prefer to rest the forestock farther back then some others do.I line it up with the front of the scope.
This always worked with my 100 year old 1892 Krag.
Frank
Frank

Offline Kragman71

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2003, 07:36:01 AM »
Sorry,
I forgot to mention that I'm a dollar short on that free floating barrel test.
That will be my next job.
Frank
Frank

Offline Ron T.

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2003, 04:23:41 PM »
Frank…

Observe and follow every suggestion offered so far… it is ALL good advice.

I shoot a Savage Model 99 “late EG” (mfg’d in 1953) in .300 Savage.  My rifle has a 24” barrel and my handloads put out a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tailed bullet at an average muzzle velocity of 2680 fps (chronographed) using 41.5 grains (a maximum load) of IMR4895 sparked by a Winchester standard large rifle primer in Winchester cartridge cases which I have “accurized” using normal “bench-rest” shooter’s methods.  

These “alterations” include full-length resizing, then trimming to minimum case-length specifications (1.865-inches),  inside and outside chamfering of the case-mouth, “regulating” the primer pocket and trimming the material out of the case’s powder chamber forced into it when the factory “punched-out” the flash-hole from the primer pocket to the cartridge’s powder chamber.

This combination averages ¾ inch, 3-shot groups at 100 yards.  However, I “work up” my handloads using the 50 yard range at my club’s rifle range since my hunting scope (a 3x-9x variable Bushnell with a built-in Bullet Drop Compensator), even set on 9x, doesn’t give a large enough sight-picture for maximum accuracy at 100 yards.

The smallest group I’ve ever shot with my rifle is a .112-inch, 3-shot group using 41.1 grains of IMR4895 @ an average muzzle velocity of 2647 fps that has a deviation of only +6 fps and -7 fps difference in muzzle velocity .

My hunting load of 41.5 grains of the same powder has given a 50-yard, 3-shot group of .191 inches.  While my individual Model 99 "likes" ‘most all rifle powders (tried four of them including IMR3031, IMR4064, IMR4895 and Hodgdon’s Varget) and primers (CCI, Winchester, Remington and Federal), it prefers IMR4895 and Winchester standard large rifle primers.  This doesn't necessarily mean that YOUR Model 99 will give you it's BEST ACCURACY using the same powder, primer and cartridge cases, but it's a good starting point.

By a small, but measurable margin, the above quoted handload was "THE" single best combination of the most accurate load yielding the highest muzzle velocity of all the four rifle powders and the four different primers in the loads I “worked up”.

You didn’t say if you handload or not… but if you do… approach the 41.5 load of IMR4895 with CAUTION (try increasing each incremental powder charge increase by only 2/10ths of a grain once you pass 40.0 grains of IMR4895 powder.  It IS a “MAXIMUM LOAD” and may NOT be SAFE in your individual rifle.

That said… I didn’t notice ANY “high pressure signs” using 41.5 grains of IMR4895 with the Nosler 150 grain Ballistic Tip Bullet, Winchester standard large rifle primers and Winchester cases other than VERY slightly flattened primers.  The action opened easily and the empty cartridge cases ejected readily.  Muzzle velocity deviation from the median was only +9 fps and –10 fps for an average standard muzzle velocity deviation of only 19 fps which is relatively low.

If you don’t handload, think about doing it.  You can put a “premium” load together for about 30¢ per round compared to over $1.50 per round for a premium factory load… and you can “work up” a custom and very accurate load specifically for YOUR individual rifle.  Handloading not only saves you money, but allows you to shoot a lot more which can only make you a better "marksman" and, therefore, a better hunter.


Strength & Honor…

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Kragman71

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vertical stringing in a Savage '99
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2003, 05:25:18 PM »
RonT,
I appreciate your input.
The rifle is new to me,so my handloading is extremely limited. So far,I've only used IMR#4895 powder. My top load is 41.0 grs,and I got only 2498 FPS,but that figure is almost the same as the posted load in Speer#12,the latest manual that I have. That figure is 2506FPS. My ES is 11,so my SD is about the same as your 6.
I doubt that 1/2 grain increase will get me anything near your 2680FPS.
That doesn't concern me in the least. I intend to dedicate this rifle to cast bullets only. The accuracy that you get,really makes me drool,though.God bless you,your'e doing a great job.
I'm not a fan of minimum case lengths.If the case fits the chamber with plenty of safety clearance,I'm happy.I just want the cases to be the same length.
I do the other case grooming that you do;squaring the primer pocket and reaming the flash hole. I also check Winchester flash holes with a drill(I can't remember the number),because they are smaller then other cases.I selected the drill as the smallest that I will accept.
Frank
Frank