I need mis-fire help please.

[GrampaMike]

I KNOW it must be me doing something wrong because I have the same problem with two rifles.  I shoot only roundballs and black powder.  Rifle one is TC Hawken .40 with 1:48 twist, .395 ball with .015 pre-lubed wonder-lube Oxyoke patch, 50 gr fff.  Rifle two is TC Renegade .32 with 1:48, with .310 ball with .015 pre-lubed wonder-lube Oxyoke patch, 30 gr fff.  Both rifles have had about 20 shots each total since they were new.  

At the range:
Run 1 dry patch down the bore, to clean out the little lube from the previous cleaning.
I fire 2 caps (#11).

Drop powder.
Ram patch and ball.
Cap it.
Fire.
Run a wet patch (with wonder-lube).
Run as many dry patches as it takes to come back clean (1-4).
Go back to drop powder step and repeat.

After 2 to 4 shots all I get is mis-fires.
Blow out powder and ball with Co2.
Put rifle one away.

Start with rifle 2.  Go thru all the same steps with exact same results.

I usually have the range to myself and shoot alone.  No other Muzzle Loaders that I know to ask what I am doing wrong.  First year of muzzleloading for me ever, years of centerfire.  Thanks for any advice.  Mike

[quickdtoo]

When you wipe it between shots, firing a cap before reloading should solve the problem. You're pushing fouling into the breech and that fouling prevents good ignition. Using wonderlubed shooting patches you shouldn't need to wipe between every shot.

[GrampaMike]

As simple as that?  I was hoping it was simple, Thank you alot quickdtoo.

[jgalar]

Your steps:
Drop powder.
Ram patch and ball.
Cap it.
Fire.
Run a wet patch (with wonder-lube).
Run as many dry patches as it takes to come back clean (1-4).
Go back to drop powder step and repeat.

When you run a wet patch it should be slightly damp with water or spit not more lube. You are shoving gunk into your nipple bolster area.

[crow_feather]

Gota better way,
powder, patch, ball, cap, shoot....powder, patch, ball, cap, shoot.....repeat same.  It don't make no sense to flood a perfectly good bore with wet cr....stuff when ya don't need to.  There is no secret forumla to shootin black powder, don't ever put no oil in the bore, use a good moose milk lube and shoot till ya drop without ever swabin tween shots!

I guess some people have ta have a gimmick ta make it look kinda special.  It aint.  If you can't repeat the proceedure as set above, you are doin something wrong.  Don't go inta the woods thinkin that you havta do all sortsa special stuff tween shots and let a wounded deer escape.

I'm not a bright individual and it works for me.  It can for you also, just give it a try. And may your huntin and shootin be as uncomplicated as a caplock rifle.

Crow - I'm in for it now - Feather

[jbtazgrabber]

do you think ole danail boone cleaned his rifle after he just shot at a bear or was he just reloading as fast as he could??  old saying if it anit broke dont fix it .   i dont ever fire first shot at target never never    beside target .. then i shot till the barrel gets too dirty to load., but usally im worn out long before gun gets dirty  20 shots is usally enough to grt me tired...also when i shoot a sidelock ill tap the stock on the ground 3 times after i put the powder in leaning it so the powder goes into the flash hole.   just go shoot it and clean them when you get home.quit trying so hard .

[Gregory]

GrampaMike

By misfire do you mean the cap is going off but the rifle isn't or is the cap not firing?

[lostid]

yup, it's as simple as quickdtoo says,,
 Them small bores is finicky,,an sensitive too foulin,but it ain't likley bore fouling thats causin them "snail breech" TC's ta foul. It's the nipp's and caps.
 I don't care what "caps" yer usin,,them things foul worse than powder nowadays,
,,ever heard of a thing called a "nipple pick"? It's just a little piece of wire that pokes through that little hole in the bottom of a nipp? You go ahead and swab or not, and load that main any way you want. Tap the main into tha fire channel, then pick that nipp.  You'll feel that "crunch" just like rock tosser's pickin vents if you load proper,,

 Look at it this way,,it's really hard to not get powder to go off if the "fire' get's too it,,,

[teech]

If you load the way crowfeather says you can shoot till the cows come home and never have one misfire,if you can't get moosemilk get some Hoppes patch lube, it's just as good, whatever you do throw away the wonder lubed patches.

[fffffg]

alot of your problem is wonder lube. i use it in smoothbore shotgun but thats it.. wonderlube coauses excess crud/fouling..  the angle in the breach is small and couses problems.  the best is a hole on top going directly into the barrel like on the old mititary guns.. but youve got what youve got.. flintlocks are more dependable.. use bear oil or PURE neatsfoot oil for patch lube it will be the best for accuracy..  if you dont have a lot of fouling buildup you may not need to wipe, but in dry weather it gets hard real fast.. load right after you shoot, the longer you wait the harder it gets.. its considered dangerous but some target shooters clean after they load.. without cap of course.. that way the have clean barrel and no fouling going down to capp area..  i used to clean between shots wit murthpy soap oil/ water mix betwwen shots and would have the same problems, the wet fouling would get behind the load somehow and sometimes blow back would make cement right behind the cap..  a nipple with a littel hole in the side helps, i think its called a hotshot.. it lets blowback clean the chanel a little better..  the gun i had trouble with is thompsone center.. it leaves alot to be desired in the cap area.. i have a shot gun percussion  that never misfired, the cap ran strait into the breach chamber with a bent hamer to intersect .. yo have to wipe with the exact amount of cleaner on patch  or it will misfire.. .. good luck dave..

[crow_feather]

Another problem I seen is blowin down the bore.  At a shootin match, a woman shooter was blowin down the bore of her thunder maker after each shot.  Well, she ended up blowin so much humid air down her bore, her pyrodex would not ignite.

Since I figured I looked a fool with my lips locked on the front end of Buck Buster (my rifle), I never tried blowin down the barrel of a rifle shootin black powder.

But if you are havin trouble gettin a rifle to ignite, that might be the problem ifn yer a Bore Blower.

C F

[Birddog6]

I agree, you are packing the wonderlube into the breech & blocking the ignition channel, with all this cleaning between shots..

1: You don't need the rifle Clean between shots. Bore swabbing is to keep the bore consistat shot to shot, not clean. Swab down & back one time with a loose fitting patch such as a "T" shirt patch, not a patch for shooting.

2: A tight swabbing patch/jag will shove all the cruds into the breech. Modify the jag by putting it in a drill & taking a 3 corner metal file & work the edges sharp & slanted toward the threaded end. Make the front land of the jag about .010 smaller in dia. than the other lands. What this does it it lets the patch & jag push past the cruds & on the backstroke it gathers the patch in the sharp lands of the jag & pulls the cruds out.  



3:  You swab down & back  One Time, no pumping & only one patch. You want the bore consistant, Not Clean, consistant & the same each shot. Use a semi-loose tee shirt patch, not a shooting patch.  Us the same amount of wetting solution each time & not very wet on a smallbore, or you will have BP soup running out the hipple/vent.

4:  On a small bore, I prefer a liquid lube such as Lehigh Lube, Moose Milk or my own homemade concoction. Much less fouling.  I don't like a grease lube on any ssmallbores as have had too much fouling in my experience with grease type lubes in them.

5:  Shoot some 3F Swiss in the smallbore & you will see a signicant difference in the fouling amounts. The stuff burns cleaner than all other BP's & is simply Awesome. Cut your load by 20% as it is potent.

Good Luck   :wink:

Birddog6

www.custommuzzleloaders.com[/u]

[GrampaMike]

Everyone:  Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, I will try them all if need be.  Like crow_feather and others are saying, I am just making this too hard.

Crow_feather:  I would never go hunting with a rifle unless the rifle and I were in total agreement.  I will try your method next.

Jbtazgrabber:  I like your “tap and lean” method, I was hitting the side of breech after dropping the powder.

Gregory:  Mis-fire means my caps are all going off but nothing else.

Lostid:  Yes I do have a nipple-pick, and use it all the time.

Teech:  I do have some moosemilk, made from a recipe on this website.  Will switch from wonder-lube to moosemilk.

Fffffg: Wonder-lube comments noted.

Crow_feather:  Not a “Bore-Blower” will leave that to the women shooters.

Birddog6:  Thanks for the instructions.  And no more solid lubes in smallbores.  Will get me some 3F Swiss.  Will rework my jag with your suggestion.

After my next range trip I will report on my efforts with all of your suggestions.  Nothing like experience of others, best part of this website.

Again, Thanks.  Mike

[roundball]

.....whatever you do throw away the wonder lubed patches.....

I have another view...he's shooting TC rifles, all of which have patent breeches and in about 15 years of shooting several of them I've never had any crud get pushed down into a patent breech that's caused misfires...I use nothing but wonder lube and lots of it in all my TC percussions & flintlocks...every misfire has a definite reason and none of mine have ever been caused by wonderlube...there's something else at work here

[crow_feather]

Yellow wonder lube (I thnk it's wonder lube) melts when you breath on it.  I think when wonder lube is put down a hot bore, it flows like water.  If it is not all wiped up, it can contaminate powder.

C F

[roundball]

You might be thinking of another lube...Wonder Lube (a.k.a. Natural Lube, Bore Butter, etc) actually is fine with powder, not harmful...in fact, one of it's benefits / advantages is that is can sit on powder all day while hunting and not bother the powder at all...I've used nothing but natural lube for years as a bore lube, in oxyoke prelubed overpowder wads, and in patches prelubed with it...outstanding stuff

[jgalar]

It still sounds to me as though all the extra swabbing with lube is putting gobs of the stuff between the cap's fire and the powder. If you feel you must swab between shots just use a slightly spit dampened cloth. Personally I don't swab between shots.

[crow_feather]

Roundball,

You were right, I was thinking of bore butter - (T/C).
C F

[roundball]

Roundball,

You were right, I was thinking of bore butter - (T/C).
C F

That's what I've used for years...TC's Natural Lube 1000 (bore butter)... Outstanding lube

[Birddog6]

Well, lets put it this way...... there are only 3 possible things left in that bore after he shoots..... powder residue & lube residue, cap residue.  Now if the channel to the nipple is getting blocked, it is either getting blocked by one of those 3 items or combination of moisture with them.

A tight patch/jag will put them all into the breech & this would be my first concern .

A small obstruction or sharpe edge on the channel to the nipple could increase fouling buildup. Or ig this channel is not smooth inside, it will build up further.

Could be he needs a different type of nipple also.

[Ramrod]

My  :money: . A good lube don't need to be wiped and if you don't wipe, you can't push crap into the fire channel.

[Birddog6]

Ramrod,   tell that to the guys at the territorial & national ML Matches & they should get a good chuckle from ya, just like we are.  
 :grin:

[crow_feather]

Birddog6,

I used to be a pretty good bowler.  I watched the pros bowling and saw that they always wiped their ball before they threw it.  So I started wiping my ball before I threw it.  
After a while I was asked, you aren't a pro, so why are you wiping your ball?

Same with wiping your bore.  Maybe at the territorial and national matches, it's a good thing because it gives you a 1/4 inch advantage.  But in the real world, it just don't mean one heck of a lot.  

But I do have one that will help.  
Before you put the patched ball down the bore, spin your rifle around three or four times quickly.  That evens out the powder in the bore so that the combustion is even on all sides of the prb.  They do this all the time at the regionals and quarter finals.  

C F

[Birddog6]

ha ha ha!  No no no... that is not how ya do it.  You hold the rifle & you turn around 3-4 times real fast  !!  ha ha ha ! :-D

[lostid]

Same with wiping your bore.  Maybe at the territorial and national matches, it's a good thing because it gives you a 1/4 inch advantage.  But in the real world, it just don't mean one heck of a lot.    

C F

 Caring for bore condition "does" mean a heck of alot!  And if your off 1/4 inch at any vous',,,you sit on the side line and watch! Those that sit at the side line most always grumble, bitch, and wyne.

 So my point is CF, sumtymes it's gud ta listen, and watch and learn. And sumtymes even try sumpthin differnt. don't ya haveta make funn of folks allin the tyme,,just set still and listen sum,,try it,,,,,,OH! I forgot! your a moderator!!
 All bow down!! All Bow down!!!!

[crow_feather]

lostid,

Just what in the heck does being a moderator have ta do with what I'm writing and thinking.  I'm still me and I still think and write the same.  

And why try sumthin different when what I do works well.  Right now, I can shoot all day without wipen my bore tween shots and I get one inch groups at 50 yards off the bench.  (and not just one shot neither)

I should try sumthin different so I can end up working more for the same result?  I hunt with my rifles and at 56 years old, I'm not goin to the Nationals.  Off hand, I can't get 20th place at the locals.

[lostid]

I have removed this post,, myself. It was rude and inappropriate.

My apologize to all. lost id

 I do take shooting seriously though,,levity and frivolity does have it's place, but every thread? sorry.

[crow_feather]

lostid,
Only in your mind is a moderator more than just another person.

If I choose to use humor, sorry, but that is me.  I prefer it to make a point instead of using other methods.

nuff said

What you doing up so late?  I have to work or I wouldn't be writing this now.

C F

[Ramrod]

Hey, crow_feather is right on the mark. What is wrong with a little humor? Anyone with one good eye can see that us shooters are some of the most superstitious and ritualistic folks around. No need to take offence. Some people could use a little thicker skin around here.
And the bowling ball story cracked me up. It pretty much sums up the whole game.

[quickdtoo]

Moderator? Crow Feather is a moderator? :shock:  News to me! :lol: I just thought he was another knowledgeable fellow shooter with a good sense of humor, just like the rest of us!!