Author Topic: Can I convert my rifle into a pistol? (Read 963 times)

ALWAYSSHOOTINSOMETHING · « **on:** October 23, 2004, 12:25:08 PM »

I heard somewhere that Thompson registered all the frames as pistol so there would be no felonious actions if someone were to convert rifle to pistol would like to know if I will be ok.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2004, 01:58:28 PM »

As far as I know, NO. If it was purchased as a pistol, it can be converted back and forth. But if it was bought as a rifle, it must stay that way. I've never actually called and asked one of the lead officers at the BATF(E).
So you might want to do so.

That brings up a really important comment. Anytime you have a question for the BATF(E), you need to do two things when they provide the answer. #1 ask them for the exact regulation number that pertains to that question.
#2 if they hesitate for a few seconds (most of the time they will) ask to speak with the lead officer, and pose the question to him/her. Again, ask for the specific regulation number so you can look it up.
You need to look up the regs and balance it with what you are told. Many times people at the BATF(E) will answer a question offhand, and really not have a clue as to what the real regs are. And/or the regs are left open to interpretation and it will depend on the officer that reads it to decide if you are in violation or not. If your question falls in this category, request a full written reply, signed, from a Special Agent In Charge, stating what they have told you.
I assure you, saying "Agent so-in-so said..." will not help you one bit in court, or in front of the magistrate.

Didn't mean to make this so long.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2004, 05:00:30 PM »

I contacted T/C about this earlier this year. They told me it was perfectly legal. True, the BATFE could say otherwise, but I kept the letter regardless. I know it is not wise to break rules wantonly, but this is one of those cases where (assuming it is not legal), unless you do something really stupid with your gun and the cops are looking for something to bag you with, no one is gonna care. T/C got the contender situation straightened out and it is legal. Some say that the Encore is not part of that ruling of the Supreme court. Its basically one big mess that no onemight even know the answer to (including T/C themselves.)
Brian M.

Keith L · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2004, 09:49:37 PM »

Can you cite case law that got this straightened out? I guess I don't have enough time or money to be the test case.

sgtt · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2004, 11:10:50 PM »

I believe the reference may be to United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Co. 504 U.S. 505 (1992)

New Hampshire · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2004, 02:16:19 AM »

Ill have to double check it, but I would guess sgtt is correct. T/C and BATFE were having a disagreement about the contender carbine (the Encore was not out yet.) I think the BATFE was saying the carbine was illegal because people could easily convert the rifle to a handgun and vice versa, and the collapsable stock the Contender could used (I think) was shorter than legal. But in the end the supreme court favored T/C. This is why you will see some people say it is legal on the Contender but not the Encore (and some say the same about the G2.) Like I said, its a big mess that no one can really answer positively. So if you a really worried just simply buy a new frame registered as a pistol and go with that. But I wouldnt worry too much. But Im no lawyer so.......
Brian M.

New Hampshire · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2004, 02:23:50 AM »

sgtt was right. I found a link if anyone is interested:
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-0164.ZO.html
Brian M.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2004, 03:07:00 AM »

Here is a link to a letter returned by the ATF in response to the question.
It's a bit vauge and doesn't cover all of our questions.

http://www.handgunhunt.com/tech/t29/index.html

New Hampshire · « **Reply #8 on:** October 24, 2004, 06:11:52 AM »

Thanks for the link reed. Im just curious if you know the date the letter was written. I noticed at the top it said Oct. 30, but no year given.
Brian M.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2004, 06:52:38 AM »

I don't have the foggiest idea on the year.

crawfish · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2004, 09:00:51 AM »

EVERY FRAME that leaves the T/C factory is a HANDGUN no matter what configuration you see it in for sale. Suppose you order a Contender with a 14 inch Hunter barrel in 7X30Waters and a 20 inch carbine barrel also in 7X30Waters plus all the stocks, grips and forearms you would need to build either a handgun or carbine. When you pick it up from your dealer all those pieces are in one carton, disassembled. There are some here and on other forums that will tell you that depending on how you FIRST configure that group of components will determine what that frame (the actual gun) will be forevermore, WRONG WRONG, WRONG because that frame was a handgun when the numbers were stamped on and added to the registry just as ALL (G2 and Encore also) the other frames are. GET IT?

22hornet · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2004, 01:14:00 PM »

Just trying to understand this if thats the case then why when you buy a Encore Muzzle loader rifle or just a rifle don't you have to go through all the pistol back ground checks and such to get it?

Reed1911 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 24, 2004, 01:16:41 PM »

Crawfish,

Where did that information come from?

ALWAYSSHOOTINSOMETHING · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2004, 05:04:19 AM »

Crawfish, that is what I had heard, just wanted to hear it again before I invest more into my already large investment.

TCShooter · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2004, 05:00:43 PM »

Well let a New Yorker chime in. A buddy of mine just went through all of these questions with the person at our local pistol registration dept. and he was told the serial numbers are not designated either way and that if you bought it as a rifle all you needed to do was put it on your pistol permit to change it over. (His started out as a muzzle loader rifle) As a side note we are told we have to register each pistol barrel we buy also! May or may not answer your question but that is the way it is here.

Keith L · « **Reply #15 on:** October 25, 2004, 11:31:59 PM »

While this may cover it for the state of New York I don't think the feds are satisfied with that.

I wouldn't risk large fines, potential jail time, loss of my Contender, and the hassle of a lifetime.

TCShooter · « **Reply #16 on:** October 26, 2004, 02:04:32 AM »

But for people that have strict pistol ownership laws I can't see how they would designate frames as pistols because that would mean if you didn't have a pistol permit you couldn't own one of these, even if you bought it as a rifle. If the frame was a pistol disguised as a rifle the store wouldn't even be able to sell it to you here unless it was put on a permit first so I don't think the frames are designated as pistols from the factory. I think it is just a rifle until you change it over and it is up to you to abide by the laws. They count on us as being fearful of loosing our stuff and therefore willing to register them as pistols when we change them over. Those that are not law abiding citizens of course would not be concerned with this but then again they would probably not be shopping for a single shot either.

crawfish · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2004, 10:51:58 AM »

Back when I was a member of TCA we went through this drill until keyboards burned up and monitors melted down. Finally one of the nabobs of TCA went to the "horse's mouth" and the info was posted to the TCA website and published in one of their periodicals. This of course was before the ENCORE. The info on the Encore was discussed on one of the TV gun magazines G&A I think.