Author Topic: Bad Group's (Read 818 times)

95Road King · « **on:** October 15, 2004, 02:30:59 AM »

Am shooting a .50 t/c side lock percussion with a red dot scope.
80 gr. T7
240 XTP, green sabot
AT 50 yds. I can clover leaf 3 shot's.
AT 100 yds. they scatter out to 12-15 inche's!!!
Any one have any idea's of what i'm doing wrong??
I can pick from 4 differant reticale's on this scope and i've used the crosshair. Same thing.

RCL · « **Reply #1 on:** October 15, 2004, 04:22:04 AM »

I'm thinking that maybe the rate of twist in that side lock is not fast enough to stabilize the XTP at that distance.

lonewolf5347 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 15, 2004, 09:43:53 AM »

RCL:I wolud drop the powder charge a little 80 grains of t7 ?
I have a t/c 50 cal. flinter it will not shoot the t7 powders ,loves goex3f,320 REAL conical,or a 350 grain keith hp sabot all lead.
I would also look at the t/c 240 grain cheap shot sabots a lot of guys I know shoot them out of there hawken and there performance are outstanding

filmokentucky · « **Reply #3 on:** October 15, 2004, 10:15:24 AM »

Which T/C are you shooting? Some of the traditional style rifles have a slow or round ball twist. Some have a "compromise twist' of 1" in 48" and should stabilize a slug or a sabot. If memory serves, the R?B barrels are so marked.
The fact that you are getting tight groups at fifty yards with no sign of keyholing seems to indicate that the rounds are being stabilized. However,
my experience with sabots is pretty much limited to watching others try and work up good loads, so maybe they don't begin to wander until they get a little farther out. The suggestion to try fffg is a very good one and you could even try ffg---I've had .50 calibers that preferred one over the other. I have two new .54s and I anticipate trying several loads in each before I get it right. And it's unlikely that they both will wind up liking the same load. But that's part of what makes front loaders so much fun, at least for me.

95Road King · « **Reply #4 on:** October 15, 2004, 10:19:50 AM »

Hey guy's:
Just came back from the range. Your right. Rate of twist is wrong for
the sabot's. I shot 315gr. maxi-ball's today. WOW!!! Excellant group's
all around. Thank's for replying.

Ramrod · « **Reply #5 on:** October 15, 2004, 01:55:29 PM »

Glad to see you get it going 95Road King! But what the heck is a guy from PA doing messing around with sabots and 777? Have you no idea of history? :lol:

95Road King · « **Reply #6 on:** October 15, 2004, 04:20:06 PM »

Ramroad:
I have 3 smoke pole's.
(1) .50 cal. T/C Hawkin FLINT LOCK
(2) .50 cal. T/C HAWKIN side lock percussion
(3) CVA .45 cal. inline

We have an early 1 wk. season starting tomorrow (sat.) Not traditional!!
You can use scope's, percussion, inline's, anything .45 cal and bigger.
Flint lock season start's day after CHRISTmas if it's not on sun. Nice time to be in the wood's!!! Fiber optic site's are legal in that season.

crow_feather · « **Reply #7 on:** October 15, 2004, 07:58:01 PM »

I'm wonderin how you would manage if howitzers were legal. Carryin one of them things in the field is tiresome.

C F

95Road King · « **Reply #8 on:** October 15, 2004, 10:37:35 PM »

Crow_feather:
Yes, The Hawkin's are a bit heavy. I"m 67 yrs. old and I still tote them around!!! I love shooting them.
Wonder how they would be on Prairie Dog's. :-D :wink:

Charles/NM · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2004, 02:54:21 PM »

A 315 grain bullet should work well. I find 330 to 360 grains are usually best in that barrel. I find the 350 grain T/C Maxi Hunter to be the most accurate in my 50 cal T/C Hawken. I use an Ox Yoke lubed felt wad under the bullet to protect the base and use 90 grains of Pyrodex RS.

harryo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2004, 03:23:25 PM »

Quote from: Charles/NM

A 315 grain bullet should work well. I find 330 to 360 grains are usually best in that barrel. I find the 350 grain T/C Maxi Hunter to be the most accurate in my 50 cal T/C Hawken. I use an Ox Yoke lubed felt wad under the bullet to protect the base and use 90 grains of Pyrodex RS.

My T/C 50 cal Renegade shoots a .495 ball & .015 patch, over 75 grains of Swiss FFg, very well. It also shoots a 250 grain REAL conical & over powder wad, with 90 grains of Swiss FFg, exceptionally well. It shoots a 320 grain REAL conical & over powder wad, with 90 grains of Swiss FFg, very well.

95Road King · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2004, 05:10:38 PM »

Charles/nm
Harryo
Thank's for the info. I will try both you guy's load's. One thing I've never done is use an over powder wad!! Do you think it help's anything??
What's the reason for it??? :?

harryo · « **Reply #12 on:** October 19, 2004, 04:07:22 PM »

Quote from: 95Road King

Charles/nm
One thing I've never done is use an over powder wad!! Do you think it help's anything??
What's the reason for it??? :?

I' m not exactly sure but I believe the idea is to provide a buffer between the bullet and the powder that protects the bottom of the bullet from damage at ignition, possibly from gas cutting around the edges of the bullet base.

From my experience using different conicals in my TC rifles, I do know that some bullets shoot more accurately with an over powder wad, some show little or no difference and some shoot less accurately. You should try the same loads with and without, to see what works in your barrel.

Charles/NM · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2004, 03:44:53 PM »

I use over powder wads because I saw some evidence of minor gas cutting in the bases of recovered bullets shot with Pyrodex RS. They were usually one small gas cut on the bullet base that cut thru the first ring of the base of a MaxiBall bullet. The second and third rings didn't show any cutting. It was about the size and depth of rifling grooves that are on the side of the bullet rings. If I were shooting real BP I'm not sure I would use wads. Bases of my recovered bullets seem to indicate that Pyrodex burns hotter than real BP. Real BP isn't locally available to me.