Author Topic: .357/44 Bain&Davis... (Read 3416 times)

Flatlander.54 · « **on:** March 02, 2003, 03:13:14 AM »

Im interested in this cartridge and was wondering how hard they are to find and what they go for. Anyone had any experience with them?

Nobade · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2003, 06:51:47 AM »

Well, if you want to find one you pretty have to make it. No problem, just run a .44 mag case into a 357-44 die and you've got formed brass. As far as I know, the only factory gun you'll likely run into chambered for it is a TC Contender. It was, however, originally designed as a high velocity revolver cartridge. But it is mighty picky, as most bottleneck rounds in revolvers are, and isn't all that great an idea there. But where it really shines is in lightweight leverguns. A Marlin 1894 in 44 mag could be easily rebarreled and rechambered for 357-44, and you'd have pretty close to 35 rem ballistics in a light rifle that held a bunch of ammo.

Steve E · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2003, 09:21:58 PM »

Had a Contender barrel from Bullberry that I was disappointed in till I tried 158 Gr. bullets and loved it from them on. I have a 44 Marlin at the gunsmith getting changed to 357x44 B&D, as soon as I get my reamer back I will chamber another cylinder for my Blackhawk in it also. According to the books it will push most bullets a little faster than the 357 Maximum. I have had a few people tell me it won't, as I have not had a 357 Max I can't compare them myself. I really like the B&D and in a carbine should be good out to maybe 150 yds or so. As Nobade said it is simple to form, just run the case into the B&D die, no form die needed. I have found it is better to use virgin brass. Using once fired you might lose a couple for every 75 or 100 cases, which is not bad odds.

Steve E...........

45LC-Man · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2003, 06:10:09 AM »

Steve, who is doing your work? Please send me a photo when it is completed as I've been wanting one done like that for quite some time.

Poppasamsonpc@cs.com

Steve E · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2003, 07:42:53 AM »

E-mail sent.

Steve E...........

crapshoot · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2003, 07:45:30 AM »

My Ex fatherinlaw had one in a S&W revolver. What a blast to shoot. No recoil. Muzzleblast was unbearable with out hearing protection and the flames from the 6" barrel was awesome! I have always wanted one sine. Have only seen one other for sale here in the paper and haerd of one at the local gun shop. But allas, no funds. :cry:

dhtp · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2003, 01:02:39 PM »

Bain & Davis
307 E. Valley Blvd
San Gabriel CA 91776

626-573-4241

baindavis@aol.com

think that it is up to date.

Chuck White · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2004, 05:38:04 AM »

I know this one is a little old, but maybe someone will be interested!

You can get some respectable velocities with this cartridge, especially out of a carbine! The carbine conversion should serve you well.

I "had" a 357/44 Bobcat Magnum (very similar to the B&D) in a Ruger Blackhawk back in the 70's and I could get just under 2100 fps out of mine using 125 grain Hornady soft points!

Shooting this thing at dusk, was quite a fireworks show! I swear the flame was about a foot in diameter and three feet long.

I did a little searching and found the following information for the .357/44 Bain & Davis in "Cartridges of the World", 5th Edition.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullet--Powder/grs---------MV-----ME
110----WW-296/24 grs---2120---1100
110----WW-296/28 grs---2365---1368 Near Max.
125----IMR-4227/26 grs--2085---1205
125----WW-296/25 grs---2170---1307 Near Max.
158----WW-296/24 grs---2045---1465 Near Max.
158----2400/18 grs-------1700---1018

All data for a 10" Thompson/Center Contender pistol only.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This data is "as printed" in the book, therefore, I assume no responsibility for it's use!

Steve Ruchala · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2004, 08:30:15 AM »

Has any one thought about using a 445 Super mag case for just a little more speed?

unspellable · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2004, 02:27:47 AM »

I have no personal experience with this cartridge but have been thinking about getting into it on a revolver platform. Based on my experience with the 357 Super Mag vs the 357 maximum, I would think that it would perform better in a revolver with medium to heavy weight bullets as opposed to trying to get higher velocity with a light bullet. the use of big cases full of slow powder behind light bullets in an attempt to get very high velocities just doesn't seem to work well in revolvers and is what led to the fiasco with the factoru loaded 357 Maximum. We 357 Super Mag shooters never had any problems because we didn't use the lightest bullets.

As for using a 445 case, you'd be in a single shot or rifle, why not just use a 35 Remington?

Javelina · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2004, 12:21:23 PM »

Hey Steve Ruchale,

Someone HAS thought of using the 445 SuperMag case for the 357. Gary Reeder in Flagstaff, Arizona uses it for several of his wildcats and he sells a lot of them! 357 and 41 are really popular neck-downs for the 445 SuperMag case and they are really accurate - additionally, they hit very hard. Nothing like speeding up those 357's and 41's to the mid 2,000 fps range. Yes, they stay together. Yes, they knock the peewadin' out of whatever you hit.

It's one of the best ideas for T/C Contenders and Encores I've seen in a long time. I've got the 41 GNR #2, based on the 445 SuperMag necked down to 41 caliber and it's great!

Check this site for the Reeder Wildcats (I have NO affiliation with Gary Reeder whatsoever - I just like his stuff):

http://www.bryantcustom.com/services/availabl.htm

Safe and good shooting to you!

Javelina

Javelina · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2004, 12:23:41 PM »

Hey Steve Ruchala,

My sincerest apologies - I screwed up and put the wrong URL in my my message above and also mis-spelled your name - sorry bro'!

Here's the correct URL for Gary Reeder:

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/information/GNR_cartridges.htm

Safe and good shooting to you!

Javelina

Gowge · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2004, 01:44:51 PM »

Quote from: Flatlander.54

Im interested in this cartridge and was wondering how hard they are to find and what they go for. Anyone had any experience with them?

Here's a really good article on the pros & cons - and an excellent alternative... for both lever actions & (matching) revolvers.

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/356gnr.htm

....and while you're at it, you might just as well read this before you think about wildcatting a nice big .357 Mag revolver. There's some impressive loads in a regular .357 case, or a .38spl in a lever action!

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/357%20Heavy.htm

GOOD LUCK! :wink:

45LC-Man · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2004, 03:32:15 PM »

As a side note I wrote to Mr. Reeder last year inquiring about his .357 wildcat based on the .41 Mag case. He stated to me in an email that the .357 GNR would not get the velocities that a .357/.44 B&D would in equal length barrels. These are his words..............not mine. The Bain and Davis is a superior round to the GNR because it uses .44 brass which is more plentiful and cheaper and gets higher velocities (that's what this is all about ain't it?) and it easier to form brass (No fireforming). I have had several of these in past years and am still wanting a Marlin 1894 chambered in it. My present B&D is a 10 1/2" Blackhawk. I had David Clements install a take-off Ruger Maximum barrel on a Blackhawk frame.

Oh my, so many wants and so little money. :grin:

Moe · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2004, 12:44:50 PM »

I had a 356GNR from Reeder, both a revolver and a Contender barrel. Still have some loaded ammo and fired brass left. It was a neat round. Held a little more powder than a 357Max. It was pretty easy to load for, no fireforming. But I rotate stock after a while, and they are gone. Been seriously thinking about his 358GNR in an Encore. Haven't decided yet.

45LC-Man · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2004, 09:10:27 AM »

Moe, I have never heard that term before "Rotate Stock". I kinda like it. Do you think my wife will buy into it if I use it? She is getting tired of "Oh that thing............ why I've had for a long time. You don't remember?"

Rotate stock................ I like it. :-D :-D :-D :-D

Moe · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2004, 01:38:38 PM »

"rotate stock" I guess I invented that. As for my wife...we both get an allowance every month to spend as we see fit. She spends her's on the grandkids, and me.....

Steve E · « **Reply #17 on:** September 03, 2004, 11:26:15 PM »

Hey 45LCMan

Just to let you know the gunshop said they will be finished with my 1894 in 357x44 B&D in about 3 weeks. I'll have to post pic's and how the accuracy and velocity is. I'll also post the smiths name and the price after I receive the rifle.

Steve E......

Steve E · « **Reply #18 on:** September 03, 2004, 11:28:36 PM »

Hey 45LCMan

Just to let you know the gunshop said they will be finished with my 1894 in 357x44 B&D in about 3 weeks. I'll have to post pic's and how the accuracy and velocity is. I'll also post the smiths name and the price after I receive the rifle.

Steve E......

45LC-Man · « **Reply #19 on:** September 04, 2004, 01:54:32 PM »

I'm sitting on pins and needles. Do me a favor and don't make the photos very pretty. I really don't have the funds for another toy at this time and I'm afraid that any really neat pictures might push me over the edge.

Steve E · « **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2004, 05:07:13 PM »

Don't know why it double posted, I only hit the button once. You should see the stock Marlin gave me,I sent it back to Marlin shortly after I got it cause you had to jiggle the lever about every 5 rounds to get it to feed right. The only box I had wasn't long enough to put the whole rifle in so I took the butt stock off. After Marlin received it I called them and asked how much to rebarrel with a Ballard rifling barrel and said do it and he proceeded to write up the work order, I had several questions for them and at the end of the conversation I decided to not have them rebarrel. A couple of weeks later I got a bill for adjustment on the rifle. I called them and ask why the bill. I explained that about 8 months before they did the same adjustment on a 22 Lever gun for me and didn't charge me a thing. The gentleman I was talking to said he would turn it over to the shop Super and he would get back to me. About a week later I received a full size Marlin gun box from Brown. Upon opening it I saw that there was a butt stock on my rifle, I wondered how lucky could I get so I put my bore light in the breech of the barrel and it was a brand new Ballard Rifling barrel. And best of all there was no bill in the box. The butt stock has some nice dark grain running through it, very nice for a Marlin stock. I also took the perch belly out of the fore end, kinda looks like a Winnie fore end now. I'll tell you right now it cost me $150.00 for the smith to do the work. I got a new 357 Mag barrel from Gun Parts Corp for about $85.00, I have my own 357x44 B&D reamer with floating pilots and gauges. Funny how 'That's a simple job it'll only take a couple of months' and he received the gun and parts in May 03. Pic's and a name coming in the very near future, I hope. Hang in there 45LC-Man.

Steve E.........

Steve E · « **Reply #21 on:** October 11, 2004, 09:58:18 PM »

Lets see if I can get this right,

From the left to the right is a 357 Sig(from my Ruger Blackhawk), the 357x44 B&D(from my Blackhawk and Marlin 1894) and a 257 Robts. Ack Imp.

Steve E..........

Moe · « **Reply #22 on:** October 12, 2004, 02:42:48 PM »

Well I did it. I was at Reeders place a couple of weeks ago and he had a 358GNR Encore barrel made up and I bought it. Its a 445 SM necked to 357. Fired it last week, its pretty neat. Have to work up some loads to see how accurate I can get it. I was using 180 gr XTP's and they did a number on a gallon jug full of water.

Steve E · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2004, 04:04:42 PM »

Moe
Yeah that is the big brother to the 357 B&D. I like to think of it as kinda the relationship of the 308 to the 30-06. What kind of velocity are you getting with the 180's? Did you get a rifle or pistol barrel? Too bad that won't go in the Marlin 1894.

Steve E...........

Moe · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2004, 05:32:21 AM »

No chrono so I don't know the speed. The length is 12 7/8 inch matte blue with gold engraving. I need to try and post a pick if I get a chance.