Big bore rifles for black and brown bear?

[KodiakHunter]

Hey guys.

I'm looking at getting either a .45/70, a .450, or a .444 for my black and brown bear hunting (on the mainland, not on Kodiak).

In your opinion or experience, how will one of these Marlin lever actions perform in this case?  What do you think about using one of these for shots out to approx. 200 yards, with 150 being the average?

Thanks!
Andy

[jackfish]

The 444 loaded to its potential with 300+ grain bullets of stout construction and either the 450 Marlin or 45-70 loaded to their potential with 350+ grains bullets of stout construction will do the job.  The 45 caliber guns loaded to their potential with stout 400+ grain bullets offer a little extra assurance.  All three can be loaded appropriately to achieve a 200 yard 8" diameter point blank range.

[Mikey]

The 444 with 300 gn hardcast bullets or the 45-70 or 450 Marlin with 350 - 400 gn bullets is more than ample medicine for brown or black bear.  The 300 gn 444 can shoot to within 4 inches or less at 200 yds and still ahve enough 'ooomph' to shoot through a brownie.  You will not be undergunned with either of the 3 calibers mentioned above.  The 444 however can be loaded with 330, 350 and 405 gn bullets is you want to go that high but the 300 seems to be one of the hardest hitting loads around in that caliber.  HTH.  Mikey.

[RIFLERANGER]

Anyone will do just fine.
Ranger

[K2]

For those ranges I think you can make a better choice of cartridge. Balistics being the reason.  Big Flat bullets slow down pretty fast.   Black Bear is in a different league than the Browns.  

If you live on Kodiak you know what thick brush is all about and the closeness that can be the norm between you and the Bear.  It is amazing how 20 feet of Alders can hide a Big Big Bear   :shock:

Big Big bullets keep the time shorter between the shot and the animal no longer being able to ruin your day.  Plenty of big Bears have dropped to the 30-06 but there often is a time lag.  At close range you don't want that time lag to be very long  :wink:

For the ranges you are talking for Browns I would strongly suggest a .338 or better yet a .375H&H.  You can make the .444 45/70 or .450 work but you can say the same for the 30-06, which probably has more energy at 200 and with the new bullets may deliver that energy in a useable way.  

I know a little lady who lives in GlennAllen that took a very big Kodiak Brown with a 7mm Mauser with one shot to the brain at close range.  I also know she had a guide right behind her with a very large caliber gun that was a split second away from doing the job himself.  Would I recommend a 7x57 as the caliber of choice?  Nope.

The gun and ammo is most often a very inexpensive part of any hunting trip, choose wisely to accomplish your goals.      

Hey guys.

I'm looking at getting either a .45/70, a .450, or a .444 for my black and brown bear hunting (on the mainland, not on Kodiak).

In your opinion or experience, how will one of these Marlin lever actions perform in this case?  What do you think about using one of these for shots out to approx. 200 yards, with 150 being the average?

Thanks!
Andy

[oso45-70]

Akihmsa,
Very well put, Better to have too much than not enough, You may not have time to negotiate. Not a good time to change horses in the middle of the stream..............Joe................

[Paparock]

Deleted by Paparock

[Paul Barnard]

When I was stationed in Kodiak, my 45-70 GG was the weapon and caliber of choice for most of my hunts.  There was one area over closer to the CG base that I preferred my 35 Whelen.  I favored the Whelen in this area simply because my shots could be out to 200 yards and slightly beyond.  I just don't know about the 45-70 beyond 150 yards.  As a matter of fact my friend David ended up killing the bear I had been hunting.  I saw the animal it was huge.  Someone said it green scored #5 B&C.  He tagged it with a 338 WM.  If I knew more about the 300 gr Partitions I might suggest them as a way to extend the range and flatten trajectory.  The 350 gr Hornady RN is a good penetrator based on my limited experiences.

Paul

[mmcougar]

---   KODIAK HUNTER  ---    Living on  K. Is. you should have access to lots of expert scuttlebutt .  Talk to some local Guides .

  There is a tad of contradiction in your request for opinion .  ---   The kind of rifle you need for possible 200 yd. shots while hunting ,  ---   is not the  " right stuff "  if you suffer a , for-real , charge .

I'm a big  .444 fan ,  ---   but Browns can get massive so IMHO ,  --   I think you should tilt towards .45-70 .

Consult the Beartooth bullets Website raid it for all it's worth .
Similarly raid Garrett , for info .

Consider only heavy-for-caliber , big meplat , hard-casts .

 .450 Mag. is great , but I have some misgivings about belted cases feeding as infallibly as straight cases .  ---  They tend to tilt around in the magazine more ( tilt around upon feeding too ) .

----    Sooo , I believe I'd go with straight .45-70 .  et.cum.
Buffalo Bore or Garrett .

For a CHARGING Bruin , I believe I'd take a hard look at EOTech's Holosight  ( they make a Bushnell model too ) . If they're good enough for Iraq ,  --  they're pretty dependable .
     -------     Hate the looks of the damn things on a lever gun ( sacrilege )  --  ,  BUT IF YOU LOVE LIFE ,   --  they have extremely fast target acquisition during a charge , and they work like dynomite in reduced light .

I'd consider a fast handling , 16 to 18 "  barrel for close-in ( as in  " Guide-Gun " or " Trapper "  types .
And I'd have a first class feeding job done on the rifle  after furnishing the gunsmith with dummy rounds of the the exact ammo.  you're going to hunt with .

Maybe port the weapon to facilitate fast follow-up shots

Why ?  ---  Because I'm thinging Bear CHARGE here .

Absolutely read Herrero ( Phd . ) 's book  --  "  Bear Attacks "
Then read Garfield's  --  " Bear vs. Man "     -----    You'll know which weapon to choose .

But , getting ,  Off-Topic , a little , we were fortunate enough to get the Editor of Bear Hunting Magazine on the old ( Defunct ) Marlin Forum a few yrs. back ;  ---   and he said the .458 Win. was about as good as it gets for stopping a Bear CHARGE .    ----    And they don't make a lever gun for that Pill .   -----    So you got to consider them apples .

But if you're still determined to push through the Alders with a 200 yd. HUNTING - type rifle ,  You might opt. for a 24 " .45-70.

I'd still suggest only Buffalo Bore or Garrett fodder ,  --  a good brite Scope , a rangefinder ,   ---   and pray you don't ever surprise one up close .

One more item for your consideration .  According to the folks that study these animals ,  ---   they charge at forty ( 40 ) feet a SECOND  !   ---   the Browns / Griz .  are famous for taking lots of lead and still killing the persuers .

You are not assured of a STOP  with a center-of-mass hit ,  with anything less than .458 SP ;  --  otherwise , you're trying to hit the brain and spine ,  ---   which one Pundit said is like trying to hit a grapefruit with a salami attached to it ,  ---   bouncing toward you at 40 ft. / sec .

A lot of Guides think you shouldn't try the big ones at more than 100 yds .

Believe if it were me and I was alone ,  --  I'd take the short .45-70 and the Holo-sight .

But don't believe you should do that ( i.e. , alone ) .

Hunt the big ones with a .375 or a .458 , and have one or more good shooters along for back-up .

  ----   IMHO  ----      Regards ,   ----------    MMCOUGAR  .

[Graybeard]

If you REALLY wanna know about bears why not ask the man who has likely killed as many as any man alive? He is right here at GBO and is the Moderator of the African Hunting Forum. Our own JJ Hack. Jim used to be a field editor for Bear Hunting Magazine from it's inception until they told him he couldn't really tell the truth in a product review when the truth was the product was no good. He quit.

Jim did bear control work on a tree farm for several years killing many hundreds of bears and has been a bear guide in Alaska for many years. He is now a guide in Africa. He has likely killed and seen killed as many or more bears than any man alive today. Go ask him. He'll be glad to answer.