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Offline mitchm4570

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30 newton
« on: December 03, 2003, 01:42:18 AM »
I have a 30 newton bolt action. I was wondering if anybody knows who handles brass for this very rare caliber. Maybe someone know what parent case to use for fireforming my own cases. Thank you for your help.
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Offline Mikey

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30 Newton
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2003, 04:57:41 AM »
mitchm4570:  I think the parent case for the 30 Newton is the 30-06 but I'm not sure.  Maybe someone else can chime in here.  Failing that, get some cerosafe and make a chamber cast, that should tell ya.  HTH.  Mikey.
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Offline Donna

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30 newton
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2003, 08:28:27 AM »
Hello Mitch4570, :D

The 30 Newton is also called the 30 Adolph Express. Its parent case is the 8x68s and takes a number 28 RCBS shellholder. You can find reference to this cartridge in “the Handloader’s Manual of Cartridge Conversions” by John J. Donnelly and “designing and forming Custom Cartridges for rifle and handguns” by Ken Howell. Both of these books are very good. I think the Barnes reloading manual has a load for this cartridge.

Donna :wink:
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Offline Mikey

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30 Newtons
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2003, 10:00:42 AM »
Donna:  thanks for clarifying that for mitchm4570.  I was mistaken and waaaay off base.  For some reason I thought the 30 Newton and 30 AI were similar, but.......NOT.

Now, a couple of questions fer ya if I may, please.  You mentioned the 8x68s.... (1)  What's the 's' stand for?  (2) How much longer or shorter is the 8x68 than the 8mm Magnum, if you know? (3) Is the 8x68 a rimmed round? (4) How does the 8x68 compare in power to the 8mm Magnum, if you know.  It sounds like the length of the 8x68 is to the 06 (7.62x63) as the 06 is to the 8x57 - would one be able to form 8mm-06 brass from the 8x68 without fireforming or is that another wish list fly-away?  Thanks a bunch!  

You may already have figured out that I have a 'thing' for 8mms.  I like the 8x57 and have a bunch of mil-surps in that caliber.  3 of the 4 are very accurate with open sights and my old eyes.  I have asked about the 8mm-06 previously, thinking it might be able to be safely powered up beyond what the loading manuals used to give us while they belabored liability with the WWII Mauser Rifles but I'm not having a lot of luck in that area.  Any thoughts (as in the above) would be 'preciated.  Thanks again.  Mikey.
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Offline Donna

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30 newton
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2003, 02:00:00 PM »
Hello Mikey, :D

I don't know what the "s" stands for in the 8x68s. The 30 Newton is 2.5200” long rimless case while the 8mm Remington Magnum is 2.8500” long (0.33” longer than the 30 Newton) and of course is a belted case. The power of a cartridge is how you load each and what it is topped off with, for me they are both more cartridge than I care to fire. The bolt face of the 30 Newton is 0.5280” without a belt compared to the belted bolt face of the 8mm Remington Magnum at 0.5320”. 30-06 Springfield is 2.4940” long and the 8x57 is 2.2400” long quite a bit shorter than the 30-06 Springfield. No you cannot form 8mm-06 from 8x68 cases, the 8x68 bases and bolt face is too large.  :roll:

Donna :wink:
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"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:19-20

Offline Rick Teal

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30 newton
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2003, 12:00:04 PM »
mitch:

Ellwood Epps used to turn the belts off 300 WinMag cases and then fire form them to .30 Newton.

Rick
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Offline John Traveler

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8x68s
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2003, 01:47:22 PM »
The 8x68mm was the Swedish military cartridge wasn't it?

Maybe the "s" means SWEDEN.

John
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John Traveler

Offline Jack Monteith

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30 newton
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2003, 02:49:21 PM »
The 8X68S is a German sporting cartridge. The S means it's designed for .323 calibre bullets. This is to distinguish it from 8mm rifles bored for the .318 "J" or "I" (Infanterie).  The somewhat confusing issue of "J" and "S" bores is discussed in most descriptions of the 8X57 Mauser miltary round.

There is a 8X63 Swedish machine gun round, of approximately .30-06 size.

Bye
Jack
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Offline Mikey

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Jack Monteith
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2003, 09:18:48 AM »
Say Jack:  what can you tell me about that 8x63 Swedish machine gun round you mentioned............  As you may have been able to tell from my reponse to Donna, I like the 8mms and have often wondered about an 8mm-06.  Some folks feel it's a bunch too much trouble to size, then fireform the 06 brass, and etc., but now I hear there is an 8x63mm, hmmmmmmm.  Please tell me more if you can.  Thanks.  Mikey.
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Offline John Traveler

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30 newton
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2003, 09:25:03 AM »
Mikey, that former swedish service round, the 8x63mm has a larger body diameter than the .30-06/8x57 size cases.

See Cartridges of The World for details.

John
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John Traveler

Offline Jack Monteith

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30 newton
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2003, 09:42:48 AM »
I don't really know much about it, but some of the Crazy Canucks are playing with it, or pretending they are. WARNING: This site is adults only.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/viewtopic.php?t=25059

Get the dimensions for it and over a thousand more here.
http://www.fireflyarms.com/cartinfo/cartsearch.asp

Bye
Jack
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Offline Jack Monteith

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30 newton
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2003, 11:35:35 AM »
Getting back to the original question, I checked the cartridge collection. A RWS 8X88S case measures .5205" on the base and .510" on the rim. A Western .30 Newton case measures .525" on the base and .523 on the rim. A Western .35 Newton measures .524" on the base and the rim.  68mm = 2.67", compared to the 2.5" Newton cases, so the 8x68S case is ideal for making .30  and .35 Newton cases.

The 8x68S is about 30 years too young to be the parent of the Newtons. I've heard that the 9.3x64 Brenneke is, but I don't have one in my collection, and Cartridges of the World gives a base of .504", but Firefly gives .524" and I don't know which is correct.  It's possible that Newton or Adolph sized down .280 Ross brass.  If Newton and his backer hadn't gone bankrupt, we won't need the .300 H&H, .308 Norma Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum. He was far ahead of anyone else in the USA, and magnum fans had to wait for Weatherby 40 years later.

BTW Donna, I really enjoy your site.

Bye
Jack
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Offline Don Harrington

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8x68s
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2004, 10:09:07 AM »
The 8x68s is a wonderful cartridge to shoot . I have taken plenty of big
game with this cartridge and it hits with authority. The "S" stands for
Schuller, this cartrige came out in 1939. The latest Hornady reloading book
now has loading data for this fine cartridge. I would think Remington or
Winchester would offer this cartridge in their lines. The 8x68 S came out
way ahead of its time and here in the states the beltless Magnum  isn't
a decade old. You would think one of gun companies would have taken a look
at this cartridge before going to the drawing board for their beltless case Mag. I have played with the 300 mags (Win/Weath), including the Rem Ultras,
I will take my 8x68S everytime becuase I think it recoils far less and with less muzzel blast. Someday I hope firearms and Ammunition will be available
for the 8x 68 "S" like Remington did with their M 700 Classic for 8X57 JS.
javascript:emoticon(':grin:')
Very Happy
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