Swaging down jacketed bullets (Question)

[Reed1911]

Okay, so I have successfully been able to swag down .312 bullets to .308 without a hitch. Now from you experienced folks would I need an intermediate die to swag down from .308 to .284 (7mm); or can I do it one shot? Oh yeah, they are jacketed.

[talon]

It's generally recommended not to attempt reducing jacketed bullets more than .006" at a time. However in this case ( .308> .284) using three intermediate BRDs (bullet reducing dies) is pushing theory a little to far. However, I've never tried it myself. I have reduced just the jacket using 3 ever smaller reducing dies, but that's a lot different.

[Rick Teal]

Reed:

In order to reduce a bullet that far, you will definitely need more than one draw die, however, bringing it down that much will almost definitely give you a loose jacket and mis-shapened bullet.  

There are pictures in one of the Corbin books of bullets drawn down a long way that have bends in the ogives and off-centre tips.  I don't know if these pictures are available on the web site, but it is probably worth a look-see.

Rick

[Reed1911]

The off hand idea was to swag down .30 cal bullets for fire-forming the 7mm TCU brass. But I've found a powder load that works well, thanks for all the help.

[Drilling Man]

I hope no one gets mad at me for posting this, BUT,  

  When your going "down" to a smaller size from a bigger size, it's called "drawing".

  When you going up to a bigger size, it's called swaging.

  SO, you are wanting to "draw" down from 30 to 7.

  I'm NOT picking on anyone, i just thought i'd get the terminology right.

  I bet now someone will be watching my post and pointing out my crappy typeing and spelling!  :>)

  Drilling Man

[Reed1911]

Drilling man,

Great point. I was corrected after talking to Corbin. It often times makes a big difference (espically when reading) to have the correct terms expressed.

[Cat Whisperer]

  I'm NOT picking on anyone, i just thought i'd get the terminology right.

D-man -

Thanks for bringing it up.  While we often interchange the meanings of similar words, it's good to KNOW the real definition.

For example concentricity and coaxility are often interchanged, but one means having the same center, the other means having the same axis.

Swaging and drawing are terms of which we should KNOW the definitions.

[dannytoro]

.......Hello everyone, as someone who knows nothing about Swaging/Drawing Bullets; A) How hard would it be to swage a .308 150grain softpoint into a .311 one for use in my Saiga. B) How hard would it be to replicate from scratch the now defunct Speer .338 275grain Semi-spitzer with it's tough hide? The Best bullet ever discontinued :cry:

[talon]

Dannytoro, you can very easily 'bump up' a .308 thin jacket bullet to .311. It won't give you superb accuracy, but you'll 'hit the paper' at 100 yards. It's best to do this operation with bullets of more or less the same nose shape. As to the Speer bullet you mentioned: What do you mean by "tough hide"... was it a copper jacket, and if so how thick (1, 2 or 3 times the 'standard' thickness of .014"). By semi-Spitzer, was that a spitzer shape with the tip rounded over a bit rather than a sharp point? In any case, a swager with the proper dies and punches could probably... and easily replicate just about any bullet ever made, simply because a swager probably made the original to start with. For instance, I could make you a 375 grain 4S 338 cal bullet, .035" wall, with or without a lead tip, with the tip slightly blunted if that's the way you wanted it.  (sample only... if I were to do business here, I'd get a headliner from Graybeard first) And so could a few others on this forum I believe.

[dannytoro]

.........Well that's about right, about a .035 starting at the base until about halfway up, then tapered down to .014 right at the exposed lead tip(rounded). Loaded to 2300-2500, it was a fine North American big game round....

[talon]

Those tapered walled jackets are a real pain to work with. From a technical standpoint you are limited to about a 3 grain weight spread per core seating punch. Those punches cost about $35 each. The punch has to exactly fit the jacket to bring the diameter up to about .0005" of the final diameter... in your case, .338. On a strait wall jacket there's no problem. One punch fits all ( that is, one punch per wall thickness). I say this because most of us swagers make far more than just one weight of bullet per caliber. I know of no seller of sloped walled jackets myself, but I'm sure there's some around. I also suspect they sell very few of their product.  Now, if someone wanted to cover the cost of the punch needed to make these 275 grain beauties, they could be made for about 10 cents each. When you see prices of 50 cents each, or 75 cents each, it's to cover the tooling costs, tooling that only has a single purpose use which can't be spread over many other projects. After having said all that, I believe a core bonded bullet using a strait wall .018" thick jacket would equal or surpass the effect of any non-core bonded tapered jacket bullet made by anyone, anywhere, at any time. This core bonding technique is comparatively new to bullet making. As a matter of fact, if the bullet design allows for bonding, I do it routinely. Costs are low and the extra time is well worth it. ( for someone in business, time is money so they do cost more to buy, I suppose, but not as much as one using tapered jackets!!). This is a forum. If anyone disagrees, or has a different perspective, please add your words.

[Drilling Man]

I've shot several head of game with the 275 grain Speer, includeing brown bear and moose.  I have quite a few boxes of them around, and probable would part with them.  I'm not exactly sure where they are at the monent though.

  Anyway, if you really want some, let me know.

  Drilling Man

[dannytoro]

.......I'd hate to take a man's last box of those 275grain Speer's, but if you do not mind parting with a box or two, we could certainly strike a bargin :grin:

[moosehead]

talon

Bonded bullets are by far the best.  I have made bonded bullets for a while now...the process is not that hard or time consuming.

[Drilling Man]

Hey moosehead,

  I don't agree that bonded core bullets are best, at least not in all cases.  I've made thousands and thousands of them for retail sale and also for my own use.

  A Nosler partition will out penetrate a bonded core bullet of the same diameter and weight, and many times that's a "big" plus.  

  I've spent a lot of time hunting big brown bears, and you need to break them down, not rib shoot them and then go look for them!!  I like the way a Nosler np's nose blows off, and the rest of the bullet, from the partition back drives on through!!

  In the 25 years i hunted big game in Alaska, i've found that i like the way NP's work better than all other bullet designs i've tried.

  Drilling Man